Light Armour Optimisation--a Little Too Much?

[Bront]

E) You don't have the Dex to take advantage of the increased Max Dex, and the reduction in weight isn't a big deal.

No, because the ACP reduction still makes it worth while. It's effectively a +2 to all relivent physical skills. Max dex isn't an issue, just a bonus.

Dash gives you a flat 5' movement bonus, and allows you to make a single 90 degree turn in a charge (and also maybe a run), and is useable by anyone (medium armor or no). It can be taken once. MAO lessens the speed penalty by 5' on medium armors and also lessens the ACP. It can be taken once, but can be followed up by GMAO. Both feats are beneficial only to people in medium armor.

Ahh, missed the ACP, nevermind

Any feat dealing with armor will automatically be better when used with Mithril armor.

No, actualy if you removed the ACP becomes AC, it becomes worse.

And the specific reference was to the fact that it is a different feat with some armors than others. It should be made consistant, either ACP or AC for all. There are plenty of cases where if you gain something you already have, you don't get anything else to compensate for it. I don't see why this feat should be any different.

 

[IcyCool]

No, actualy if you removed the ACP becomes AC, it becomes worse.

How?

 

[Bront]

If ACP already 0 becomes +1 AC no longer exists, LAO is actualy less usefull for Mithril chain shirt than a regular chain shirt.

If someone else wants to propose revisiting the feat, I'll open it up to them. The feat bothers me, but not enough to propse changing it at the moment.

However, it was good enough that I took it with Vanitri over 2WD. If it changes, I'll likely revise it.

 

[Erekose13]

Tenebrynn just took it too as my feat was approved. Now to buy a Mithril Chain Shirt.

 

[Bront]

Vanitri will sell you his for 1500

 

[IcyCool]

If ACP already 0 becomes +1 AC no longer exists, LAO is actualy less usefull for Mithril chain shirt than a regular chain shirt.

Oh? So +4 AC, 0 ACP, and +7 Dex bonus is less useful than +4 AC, -1 ACP, and +5 Dex bonus?

 

[Velmont]

No, what Bront means:

Old feat:
Chain shirt: -1ACP, +1 Max Dex
Mithral Chain shirt: +1AC, +1 Max Dex

+1 AC is much more powerfull than -1 ACP, so the feat is stronger with Mithral Chain Shirt.

New feat:
Chain shirt: -1ACP, +1 AC
Mithral Chain shirt: +1 AC

Both have +1 AC, but only the normal chain shirt sees his ACP penalty reduced (because the mithral chain shirt has no penalty to negate, and it won't give a bonus, it just cancel penalty). So the feat itself is more powerfull on the nomal chain shirt, as it has more effect on it.

Sure! It is better to have the Mithral Chain Shirt in both case, but that's because of the piece of equipement, not the feat.

 

[IcyCool]

Sure! It is better to have the Mithral Chain Shirt in both case, but that's because of the piece of equipement, not the feat.

Exactly. If that is what you meant Bront, then I withdraw my question. Looking at my statement, I may have been unclear as well. Perhaps I should have said, "The end result of using any feat relating to Light Armor will automatically be better when used with Mithril Armor".

*shrug* At any rate, the feats will stay as is until someone proposes we change them. I don't really have a problem with them, which is why I won't be proposing it change. I also don't really care if they do get changed, but I did want to explain why I proposed what I did, and defend my choices, as I still think they are valid (strong, yes, but valid).

 

[Bront]

What I mean is that the feat is less useful(IE Benificial) if there is no AC bonus for 0 ACP. Mithrill armor is better than standard armor in all cases, but the feat would do less if it didn't give the AC bonus instead of reducing the ACP penalty.

So, yes, I mean in terms of gaining benifits from the feat, not in general usefullness.

 

[Knight Otu]

So... LAO is conditionally better that Dodge. However, to reach these conditions, the character must expend resources. The resources, however, go towards expenses the character would have made anyway, but perhaps later, or not to that extend.
There are a number of conditionally better feats in D&D, though not all of them exist in LEW. The poster child here is Improved Toughness. It is conditionally better than Toughness, with the condition being that the character needs to be 4th level or higher. Any D&D character naturally moves towards this point (though not all reach it). Assuming that they get anything out of adventuring, the only net resource they expend is time (you can get most other resources back). Another, LEW-specific example, is Negative Energy Adept, though that one exists to make a lower-powered concept a bit more powerful.
So, conditionally better feats can exist depending on certain situations. Now, LAO appears to make something good even better. How can we remidy this?

• Make LAO itself weaker. This seems to be favored by most people who think LAO is too much.
• Make Dodge itself more powerful. As I am normally against tinkering with the core rules, that is a bit iffy.
• Make Dodge more attractive. This may include a feat that builds on Dodge, and makes Dodge more powerful (say, +1 Dodge against all, and the dodge bonus against single foes increases to +2, for a total of +3), or something that rewards having Dodge bonuses.
• Make LAO less attractive. I'm not sure how that could be done, though.