D&D 5E Light VS Dancing Lights

[Oofta]

Well first you've involved a second spell, which is a high cost. And the spell uses a first level spell slot, which is worse. You could cast it as a ritual, but then you need 10 minutes to cast it, and you'd need that 10 minutes every hour to keep it going. Second, you now have only one light rather than three to re-locate your foes with. Third, you've cut the range in HALF (60' vs 120') which really defeats a lot of the purpose of this strategy as you're now well within the range of darkvision of your foes.

If you're carrying around fragile containers in a dungeon that should last what, your first combat before they all break? Naw, they probably broke on the way to the dungeon



You misunderstand. Of course your foes have Darkvisionn also.

Darkvision has limited range so you can find your foes while still outside most foes darkvision range with dancing lights (there will be some with 120' range, but not most). But that won't last long as your foes will try and close with you to try and see you with their darkvision. But their perception will have disadvantage due to it being treated like dim light while you are in darkness. Meanwhile, they will be treated as in bright light, as they will be in your dim light which is treated as bright light with darkvision.

The video by Treatmonk is quite good and lays out the impacts. The point is you can see them when they cannot see you at farther range, and at closer range they will have disadvantage to see you while you will have normal vision to see them.

I agree that it's situationally useful, I just think that overall light is the better spell because of the duration and lack of concentration. Best option? Have both or cough up a bit of gold to get continual flame even if you have to pay an NPC spellcaster to do it.

An' that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[TrueBagelMan]

DIM LIGHT ONLY + Shadow Blade = Rogue always getting advantage on attacks.

Both have uses and in nearly every party I've been part of both cantrips are taken by someone.

Light also is a lot longer and doesn't require concentration.

As cool as that would be, unless the fighter picked up magic Initiate, Arcane Trickster can use shadow blade, but the Wizard isn’t doing that. Plus when are you not already in darkness to use this would be pointless since you already have advantage. If it got rid of light and made it dim, then that would have interesting uses, and I would love using it then.

 

[Ancalagon]

Um.... 3rd level slot vs cantrips??? I'd rethink that suggestion. (j/k)

Or use mage hand to hold a hooded lantern. It can cast dim light for us Shadow Blade lovers or as bright light via oil, light cantrip, or continual flame when you are high enough level. You could also use unseen servant as a ritual spell, but that might interrupt your daily routine too much.

Can your mage hand punch a goblin in the face? Can your light spell set fires? Can invisible servants see invisible foe?

I could go on - I have in been known to do so

 

[Coroc]

Can your mage hand punch a goblin in the face? Can your light spell set fires? Can invisible servants see invisible foe?

I could go on - I have in been known to do so

But that does not answer the question of them all: Is it colder outside than at night and how many cups fit into a closet?

Also: Does it rain sometimes when swimming, and is your car awake?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Can your mage hand punch a goblin in the face? Can your light spell set fires? Can invisible servants see invisible foe?

I could go on - I have in been known to do so

LOL you might as well because I don't need mage hand to do those things. And it can do things your tiny servant can't.

There are many other spells at 3rd level or lower that are better that can deal with a goblin, set fires, see invisible foes, and much, much more.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If it got rid of light and made it dim, then that would have interesting uses, and I would love using it then.

Ah, I see by your reasoning you aren't reading it RAW. Consider your Arcane Trickster is outside in broad daylight and your Wizard drops a ring of Dancing Lights around the combat area, making sure everything is within the "dim light" created by the spell. Technically, each foe is not only in the bright light of day, but also in the area of the dim light of dancing lights. The spell doesn't need to remove light for the Arcane Trickster to benefit from the advantage of Shadow Blade.

This is why my cleric/ wizard/ rogue carries around a hooded lantern turned all the way down. It provides 5 feet of dim light, making it so whenever I cast Shadow Blade, I get to sneak attack my targets due to the advantage it gives me. Combined with booming blade, it is a very effective combo.

 

[TrueBagelMan]

Ah, I see by your reasoning you aren't reading it RAW. Consider your Arcane Trickster is outside in broad daylight and your Wizard drops a ring of Dancing Lights around the combat area, making sure everything is within the "dim light" created by the spell. Technically, each foe is not only in the bright light of day, but also in the area of the dim light of dancing lights. The spell doesn't need to remove light for the Arcane Trickster to benefit from the advantage of Shadow Blade.

This is why my cleric/ wizard/ rogue carries around a hooded lantern turned all the way down. It provides 5 feet of dim light, making it so whenever I cast Shadow Blade, I get to sneak attack my targets due to the advantage it gives me. Combined with booming blade, it is a very effective combo.

That is RAW? AL allowed?

 

[DND_Reborn]

That is RAW? AL allowed?

Well, I can't speak for AL because I don't play it. But nothing says an area that is "bright light" overpowers/cancels out/etc. an area of dim light. When I have the lights on, and light a candle, the light from the candle is still there.

Shadow Blade says, "In addition, when you use the sword to attack a target that is in dim light or darkness, you make the attack roll with advantage."

If it had said, "In addition, when you use the sword to attack a target that is in dim light or darkness, but not in bright light, you make the attack roll with advantage." I would agree with you.

It is like the weirdness of the invocation *Devil's Sight". It turns darkness into bright light, but doesn't affect dim light at all!

Such strange things happen in a world of magic and fantasy.

 

[TrueBagelMan]

It is like the weirdness of the invocation *Devil's Sight". It turns darkness into bright light, but doesn't affect dim light at all!

Such strange things happen in a world of magic and fantasy.

This is probably why my table doesn’t play pure RAW.

 

[DND_Reborn]

This is probably why my table doesn’t play pure RAW.

Well, you've posted a lot about options and such that seem to really bump up the power-level of your game, so this wouldn't be anything new in that sense.

I mean, if your table wants to allow Sneak Attacks with Spiritual Weapon, allowing a source of dim light to satisfy the condition for shadow blade seems reasonable to me.

YMMV of course.