Limiting magic item creation without XP.

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Special circumstances. If you want to create a flaming sword or armor that resists heat, both need to be forged in magical flame. Otherwise, its just a craft check. Better make nice with that hellhound.

You could also use the UA craft point idea. Any crafting feat grants points, wich are used instead of XP. With these as the new standard, you can alter the number gained per feat, or even let them replenish slowly. A choice between 40 CLW potions or 1 +1 weapon would cause players to think carefully. Even if you let the point pool replenish, crafting that sword will put you out of anything else for a while.

Depending on how many points you grant per feat, it could take a number of feats to craft major items, which would count as a major expenditure on the player's part. Even if you granted 800 points per feat, it would take 10 feats to craft a +10 weapon.

 

[Nightfall]

Rangerman,


I guess that's where you and I have problems. I'd prefer to have PCs create items BUT not cheaply or easily. +1 swords should mean something, IMHO. Which is probably why I'm glad I'm posting on this thread, get some ideas I can use to eliminate some XP useage BUT also as a way to explain why powerful NPCs don't hire out others to expend XP if they don't feel like it.

 

[RangerWickett]

In a modern game, a +1 sword is boring. We have the capability to create polymerized metal blades that never need to be sharpened and that can be created by injecting the metal into a mold, resulting in a blade more impressive than a simple +1 to attack and damage. In a world with video cel phones, remote-controlled monster trucks, and personal jet packs, potions of cure light wounds are pretty mundane.

I'll still have items that are magical, in the sense that the group is made curious by thei nature, and I want something to make those hard to create. A magic weapon in this setting would be the swords of the Tuatha de Danaan, which never missed, and a magic potion would be the bubbly thing Egg-Chan (sp?) made in Big Trouble in Little China, granting intangible benefits to everyone.

 

[Nightfall]

Well that's the difference between you and me Ranger man.

I could NEVER do d20 Modern.

Regular fantasy d20, sure.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I did something similar-but-different for my current setting (a low-magic yet integral-magic setting) by removing the spell components from items, leaving only XP, time, and sympathetic sensibilities. They needed something that made SENSE as a component before they could build something ... they needed a "Craft Magic" feat ... and they needed time and ranks in a proper Craft. The guy with Craft (Clothing) could make magical shirts and gloves and cloaks, but nothing else without taking another feat. etc.

I say that if you have enough of a story component to it, then you might not need a mechanical component at all. If real magic is so inhuman, perhaps it isn't weilded by humans at all. Or if it is so ephemeral and specialized, perhaps a specific Craft (Alchemy) check and an Action Point is all you need to brew up a batch of Lucky Potion. Eye of Newt, Toe of Frog, a little mumbo jumbo and BOOM.

The XP rules in D&D are there because of how magic functions in D&D. It's common, but needs a controlling mechanism. It's mundane, yet needs something as a limiter that hits the PCs where it counts. If your magic doesn't function in the same role as magic in D&D, then the D&D rules don't really apply.

Think about what these items will be worth to the party, and where. Will they be useful mostly outside of combat, in specific story-related ways? Then I'd say they should have more story-components and some skill stuff tied to them ... Research to disover methodology, Knowledge (Arcana) to make sense of it, Craft (______) to produce it ...

If they'll have some sort of in-combat manifestation ... is it worth, say, a feat? Is it on par with the value they'd get from taking a feat? Do you want to make it risky? Perhaps each magical item they make gives them a negative level for a week, a "month and a day", or something of that sort. I had my crafting rules leave the caster Fatigued for a certain number of days, giving them a noticable in-combat penalty for the pleasure of having made the items. Perhaps crafting an item leaves the crafter Fatigued for a week or two, letting him feel the burn for a while but not really leaving any horrible lasting effects.

--fje

 

[RangerWickett]

I've decided to go the Action Point route for my own game. I'm only afraid that players might suddenly decide, when they're about to level up, to spend a few days making magic items because they have unspent action points, but I don't really see this as that unbalancing.

1 AP = 20 XP times character level.

Worst case scenario:

1st level - 5 AP x 20 = 100.
2nd - 6 AP x 40 = 240.
3rd - 6 AP x 60 = 360.
4th - 7 AP x 80 = 560.
5th - 7 AP x 100 = 700.
6th - 8 AP x 120 = 960.
7th - 8 AP x 140 = 1120.

That's a total of 4040 XP by 7th level, the equivalent of 100,000 gp worth of magic items. Hmm. That's too much I think. Okay, I'm going to tone it down to 5 XP times character level per AP. How does that sound? Hmm.

 

[RangerWickett]

Version 2.

1 AP = 5 XP times character level.

1st level - 5 AP x 5 = 25.
2nd - 6 AP x 10 = 60.
3rd - 6 AP x 15 = 90.
4th - 7 AP x 20 = 140.
5th - 7 AP x 25 = 175.
6th - 8 AP x 30 = 240.
7th - 8 AP x 35 = 280.

That's a total of 1010 XP by 7th level, the equivalent of 25,250 gp worth of magic items. That's more in tune with what a D&D character gets at that level. I'm not really sure if that's balanced for a Modern game, but 280 XP is about the equivalent of . . . a 2nd level wand, or maybe bracers of archery. Hmm. That's actually kinda dinky at that level, isn't it?

 

[rbingham2000]

Special circumstances. If you want to create a flaming sword or armor that resists heat, both need to be forged in magical flame. Otherwise, its just a craft check. Better make nice with that hellhound.

I like this one.

Special materials also fit the bill. If you're creating a weapon to use against a certain kind of monster, then you'll need a good working knowledge of what that monster is vulnerable to.

If a demon is vulnerable to meteoric iron and holy stuff, for example, you need to find a suitable source of meteoric iron, a suitable source of holy fire to forge the weapon in, a suitable source of holy water to douse the weapon in after it's been forged, and then have the thing blessed by the gods somehow before going out and kicking demon ass.

 

[Ace]

I don't like the fact that XP is an expendable resource. I understand the balance involved in paying XP to get a magic item, but I much preferred the 2nd edition concept that making magic items was difficult, but it earned you XP. So do people have any suggestions for balancing magic item creation without requiring an XP cost?

Sure.

IMC I use a magical resource called Tal which is a little like Vis if you are familiar with Ars Magica

1 Thaum (apologies to Mister Prachet) of Tal equals 1 XP

Tal comes in 3 types -- Talis Crystals which can be used to make any magic items and are the rarest, Aspected Tal -- which is second rarest. Aspected Tal can only be used to make items it is aspected for -- i.e Fire or Necromancy or Healing or whatever. It does occur in nature in things like lightning struck oak or Meteor Stones or the like but unless you can planar travel it is hard to aquire. Basically it takes an adventure to get any. It is pretty much the only way to make magic items. There is also Inate Thaum. Almost everything in nature has this in so if you say want to make a Cure Light Potion you will need Brew Potion and 25GP worth of healing herbs and the like to do it. Also the act of making a Masterwork or Masterpiece set of armor creatures Inate Thaum and they can be enchanted to +1 or +2 respectivly although no specialenchantments are possible. This costs book price

Divine Items work the same way, Talis Crystals can be used as can things with the proper aspect but there is also another way if the Gawd wants an item made (I.E the DM thinks the players should have it) they will imbue the item with power --

 

[Soel]

I also hate the idea of spending xp to craft items. I am planning to change it from being a loss of xp to a somewhat slowed advancement/per xp cost. In short, if crafting a certain item were to cost 2.500 xp, then the pc must get 2,500 more than needed to level up. The pc doesn't lose any xp, it just takes a bit longer to advance.

I think I will have a look at the Artificer's Handbook though. I have read a lot of folks' praises about it.