List of broken PrCs

[Dragon Child]

Broken PrCs, with actual analysis

Going through the books one by one, lets see what we can find-


Dungeon Master's Guide

Arcane Archer- If higher level magic is banned/weakened, then Arcane Archer may be too powerful. But if Greater Magic Weapon is available like normal, its underpowered.

Assassin- Probally weak in any campaign, Death Attack has a low DC and the spells are also weak. Higher level rogue abilities are just better.

Blackguard- Probally the most balanced of the DMG classes, not too strong, and not too weak.

Dwarven Defender- Again, a nicely balanced PrC. One of my favorites.

Loremaster- A powerful PrC, but not ot the point of being overpowered compared to other wizard PrCs.

Shadowdancer- A weak PrC, most of the abilities come too late.


Sword and Fist

Cavalier- A VERY powerful mounted PrC, but if you don't go mounted often its useless.

Devoted Defender- A PrC thats good for the first few levels, but probally not worth taking all the way to 10.

Druken Master- OK, as PrCs go, but could probally use some modification.

Duelist- Can be used for crazy-go-lucky ACs (not due to the Int bonus at all, actually), but is all and all a pretty balanced PrC.

Fist of Hexor- None of the abilities are overly useful for PCs, it would probally be best to take Blackguard instead.

Ghostwalker- For PCs, most if not all of these abilities are useless.

Gladiator- Drawing out a fight is rarely a good thing, so this PrC is also bad.

Halfling Outrider- Most of the abilities come into play when running away... need I say more?

Knight Protector of the Great Kingdom- A nice PrC, but the Defensive Blow wording is a bit ambiguous.

Lasher- Not a great PrC, fighter/rogue levels would probally be better instead.

Master of Chains- Again, this is a pretty weak PrC, I don't suggest taking it.

Master Samurai- A good PrC is you have a decent wisdom, its probally one of the better balanced ones in the book..

Ninja of the Crescent Moon- The errated version is just fine, and is one of the better PrCs out there.

Order of the Bow Initiate- A good PrC- ranged sneak attack isn't anywhere near as deadly as it sounds until you get Banked shot at level 9.

Ravager- Not a good PrC at all. Again, just take blackguard.

Red Avenger- A very sucky PrC, not worth taking in the least.

Tribal Protector-A good PrC, but its mostly for NPCs.

Warmaster- Most of these abilities will never come into play, and how much Leadership do you REALLY need?

Weapon Master- A nice PrC, not too strong, not too weak. Probally spot-on as balance goes.



More to come later...

 

[Dr_Rictus]

I don't think that the arcane trickster is too powerful. The trickster has to take levels in a non spellcasting class in order to meet the prestige class requirements. This lowers the character's casting level and highest level of spells.

True, but sorcerer/rogue and wizard/rogue are perfectly viable multiclass options. They'll never be the party's artillery platform, but they remain excellent at what rogues do. Arcane trickster is strictly better, in almost every if not indeed every way, than continuing to evenly multiclass.

Prestige classes that make unattractive multiclassing options viable are good. Arcane trickster takes an attractive multiclassing option and makes it just plain gross.

 

[Dragon Child]

True, but sorcerer/rogue and wizard/rogue are perfectly viable multiclass options.

If by that you mean Rogue 1/Wizard X is good, then yes, I'll agree with you. But a Rogue X/Wizard X is very, very weak. Low skills, low sneak attack, low spellcasting. There is no way you CAN compete. And a rogue/sorcerer only makes it worse.

 

[kreynolds]

KReynolds idea of splitting casting levels is pretty good idea, too.

That was Piratecat's idea.

 

[Dragon Child]

Defenders of the Faith

Church Inquisitor- A bit powerful, but not to the point of being overpowered- just really good.

Consecrated Harrier- Actually an OK PrC, but its flavor doesn't fit in with many campaigns, and most of the mechanics won't kick in often.

Contemplative- The first level is cool. The second is worth considering. After that, ditch it.

Divine Oracle- Probally underpowered for clerics, and a tad too strong for sorcerers. A nice PrC, though.

Holy Liberator- The best PrC in the book, although its higher-up levels arn't worth taking.

Hospitaler- Overpowered. A cleric can take it without multiclassing, getting bonus feats, cool abilities, and full spellcasting.

Hunter of the Dead- Underpowered for a cleric, and slightly too weak for a paladin.

Knight of the Chalice- If you fight demons a lot, its very powerful. If not, don't take it.

Knight of the Middle Circle-A very weak PrC, its good in one-on-one battles and thats about it.

Master of Shrouds- For evil cleric that want to fight in melee, the Master of Shrouds is one of the best choices.

Sacred Exorcist- Too powerful, although its nowhere near as powerful as many wizard/sorcerer PrCs, its still the strongest cleric PrC there is. I would consider banning it.

Sacred Fist- This, like the monk and every other unarmed PrC/class there is, is weak.

Templar-A very good PrC not for clerics, but for fighters, barbarians, paladins, and rangers. The first levels expecially are worth getting.

War Priest- Highly underpowered. Half spellcasting HURTS.



Tome and Blood

Acolyte of the Skin- Greatly underpowered. Half. Casting. Is. BAD!

ALienist- The best summoner PrC but out by WotC yet, Alienist isn't too strong but isn't weak, either.

Arcane Trickster- A perfectly fine and balanced PrC. Giving up *four* caster levels hurts, and the sneak attack isn't a good replacement.

Bladersinger- The errated version is very powerful, possibly overpowered. It is currently one of TWO good fighter/wizard PrCs, though.

Blood Magus- Didn't I say this before? NEVER give up caster levels!

Candle Caster- While most people hate it, its actually a perfectly fine and balanced PrC.

Dragon Disciple- More for fighter/bards then sorcerers, the dragon disciple is underpowered if you use current Polymorph rules.

Elemental Savant- A nice PrC, one of my favorites. It makes evocation fun and powerful, which is a feat all in itself.

Fatespinner- On the weak side, as it gives up four caster levels.

Mage of the Arcane Order- Could possibly/maybe be overpowered, depending on the frequency of scrolls in your campaign.

Mindbender- Good for the first level, Mindbender quickly looses use as it looses caster levels.

Pale Master- Ugh. Not good. Weak. Why won't they make PrCs that make you NOT loose caster levels?

Spellsword- Taking seven wizard and three fighter levels is BETTER then taking Spellsword. Spellsword gets my "Worst PrC ever" stamp.

True Necromancer- An actual decent arcane/divine PrC. Not too strong, and possibly a little weak.

Wayfarer Guide- Is giving up a caster level worth something that the DM will screw you for anyway? No? Didn't think so.


Masters of the Wild

Animal Lord- A hideously weak PrC.

Bane of Infidels- Makes a good villian, but I wouldn't reccommend it for PCs.

Blighter- Again, good for villians, not for PCs.

Bloodhound- A very, very weak PrC. Not worth taking at all.

Deepwood Sniper- A good PrC, about worth taking for three or four levels.

Exotic Weapon Master- Eh... sucky PrC. Just skip it.

Eye of Gruumsh- Aye-aye-aye, this is one bad PrC. Do not take it!

Foe Hunter- Good against one enemy. Absolutely worthless against everything else.

Forsaker- In a high or med (normal) magic campaign, its worthless. In a low magic campaign, it is VERY overpowered.

Frenzied Beserker- A good, strong, not overpowered PrC. Just be careful not to kill your allies!

Geomancer- A wonderful PrC, with all the special abilities and cool stuff.

Hexer- A very strange PrC. You either need adept (which makes it underpowered), lightning domain (overpowered), or geomancer (overpowered) to get it.

King/Queen of the Wild- A really weak PrC. Not worth taking in the slightest.

Oozemaster- Again, a really weak PrC. Half caster level is BAD!

Shifter- While many people think of this as strong, or overpowered, it is truthfully weak. Being

a barbarian is just better, and its useless if you play with current Polymorph.

Tamer of Beasts- A nice PrC, actually worth taking

Verdant Lord- A good PrC for druids, although not THAT strong. Its still good, though.

Watch Detective- A really weak PrC, unless your campaign centers around this sorta thing.

Windrider- There are better mounted PrCs, like cavalier.


Song and Silence

Virtuoso- A very good PrC, just beware of sorcerers or wizards taking it.

Everything else- Really, really, REALLY weak.


Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting

Arcane Devotee- A good PrC, not overly powerful, but still strong.

Archmage- Really wombattin powerful. I'd suggest possibly banning it, or changing it to be more like heirophant.

Divine Champion- A nice PrC, I suggest it to any religious-oriented fighter.

Divine Disciple- A good PrC, the best ability (New Domain) is gained a level 1, though.

Divine Seeker- Whats with these Divine PrCs, and actually being worth taking? Based on some of the other PrCs, that seems like a crime!

Guild Thief- A wonderful PrC for a rogue, especially if you want to have leadership.

Harper Scount- AN interesting PrC, to say the least. Its spellcasting is incredibly versitile, and its abilities are good, making it worth taking.

Hanthran- A weak PrC, really, unless you're into Cohort cheese. Still, your cohort will be doing the work then- not you.

Hierophant- A great PrC at epic levels, a very sucky one before that.

Purple Dragon Knight- Yay! Another good PrC, FRCS seems to have the best balance of most of the books.

Red Wizard- Really powerful. I suggset banning, as its great for DC cheese.

Runecaster- A nice PrC for item creation that is worth taking, without being overpowered.

Shadow Adept- A powerful, possibly confusing (so many DCs! X_X) PrC. Allow at your own risk.


Magic of Faerun

Gnome Artificer- A very, very weak PrC. A spellcaster, without spellcasting. Bleh.

Guild Wizard of Waterdeep- Then 10% XP penalty kills this PrC, making it very weak.

Harper Mage- A nice diviner PrC, goes good with loremaster.

Harper Priest- A balanced PrC for a lightly armored priest, definitly worth taking.

Incantatrix- Probally too powerful for most campaigns. Consider banning.

Mage killer- A nice PrC, with a few weird stuff (like getting Spell Focus in a prohibited school) but still worth taking.

Master Alchemist- Can you say potions of heal? Probally too powerful, consider banning.

Mystic Wanderer- If anything, this PrC is too weak. Unless you use OA, and have shujenja, that is.

Spelldancer- Contains an infinate loop. Ban immeditally.

Spellfire Channeler- While miost people get all worked up over spellfire, its actually easily fixed. If you can fix spellfire, spellfire channeler is good. If not, well, then ditch the PrC.

War Wizard- Goes great for an Elvish Elemental Savant, the war wizard likes to blow stuff up- something not many PrCs do. A good PrC, thats balanced.

 

[Dragon Child]

So, our conclusion:

PrCs you absolutely MUST ban: Spelldancer.

PrCs that came really close to meeting the above: Red Wizard, Archmage, Forsaker, Incantatrix, Sacred Exorcist, Hospitaler, Shadow Adept, Spellfire Channeler.

Thats about all of the really powerful PrCs... IMO, of course.

 

[nimisgod]

IMO, the Singh Rager (from Oriental Adventures) is one such PrC that has to be banned or at least, strictly controlled.

Fighter's BAB.
Clerics Saves.
Rage
Full attack on a charge
it can haste itself.

 

[gariig]

I still see a problem with the list of PrCs. To me, a fighter giving up a few feats to specialize is very powerful. If you are not going to allow the Wiz/Sor to specialize(Loremaster, Alienist, Elemental Savant, etc) then just drop all of them together.

If you want to make fighter PrCs at 3/4ths BAB I think that is good and 3/4 BAB at Wiz/Sor BAB that will go along to making them more balanced if you aren't allowing the casters to have full progression. This makes it more attractive to go full melee class.

Gariig

 

[Ravellion]

Good luck powering up your forsaker when there aren't many magic items.

In my experience, the best way to run a low-magic campaign is to require that any spellcaster have an equal or greater number of levels in a non-spellcasting class. Thus, you'll have a 10th lvl fighter next to a fighter 5/cleric 5 and a wizard 5/rogue 5. It's an easy way to power down the presence of magic without a whole lot of house rules; with this system, no one will be able to raise the dead until 18th lvl.

Thanks again to Col. Hardisson for the idea.

I myself prefer giving Sorcerers the bard spells known table, and give them a d6 hitdie. Bards no longer cast spells and get a d8.

Wizards and Clerics gain new spell levels at every 3rd level, intead of every odd level. Max it out at 6th level spells.

 

[Darklone]

coughcough... Anyone has any non broken PrCs ?