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D&D 3E/3.5 List of Problem 3.5e spells? Where?

Nail

First Post
Camarath said:
I think that the new Freedom of Movement spell is a problem, specifically .....
Huh.

I guess I can't see the problem; it's a 4th level spell, after all, of rather limited utility. Care to elaborate? Experiences?
 

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Nail

First Post
Intrope said:
.... Using Spell-like abilities doesn't cost the creature XP.

Actually, now that I think about this, this make Efreet-gating even more abusive: Gate 2 Efreets, get 6 wishes, wish for 6 rings of 3 wishes. Net: 18 wishes. Now you get 3 and a half +5 inherent bonuses per 1000xp!
Ouch.

I wish it would say somewhere that Called creatures can't use abilities that cost XP. Summoned creatures already have that restriction.
 

Storm Raven

First Post
Nail said:
Again, nice try.

The spell description, OTOH, disagrees with you.

"A controlled creature can be commanded to perform a service for you."

No "Efreet agreement" required.

Wrong. It can be commanded to provide an immediate service, like helping in a combat. Anything other than an immediate service requires compensation, similar to that required for lesser planar ally (which is specifically mentioned in the spell). Any use of an ability that requires the expenditure of experience points is not an "immediate service".

So, yes, efreet agreement is required.
 

Nail

First Post
Storm Raven said:
Wrong. It can be commanded to provide an immediate service, like helping in a combat.

Arg.

Look: How is helping in combat any more immediate than granting a wish (1 standard action)?

No wait: let's get back on topic, please.
 

Storm Raven

First Post
Intrope said:
Well, not actually. You see, if the task you want can be done in 1 round/caster level or less (and using a spell-like ability 3 times would take only 3 rounds), it's an immediate task--you command them, they do it, no negotiations, no payment. If it takes longer, you've got to bargain with them (and pay them).

Nope. Use of spell-like abilities to mimic spells that require experience point costs are never immediate tasks. Sorry.
 

Cyber

First Post
Nail said:
I'd happily spend 1000xp * 5 for a +5 inherent bonus, rather than 5000xp * 5. If you'd allow that.....can I join your game? :)

As for Balor Mining:
  • Shapechange into a Balor.
  • Drop your vorpal sword.
  • The vorpal sword does not dissapear when your spell ends. Read the spell description where it says: "Parts of your body or pieces of equipment that are separated from you do not revert to their original forms." Show said piece to yer DM.
  • Laugh hysterically.
  • Change into another balor, with another vorpal sword.
  • Repeat once per round for the duration of the spell.
  • Ponder who will buy all of these vorpal swords....

....Tip o' the hat to the Trollmeister, FrankT. He may not have come up with it, but I learned it from him.

The sword is an SU ability. When the balor goes or the spell ends the sword goes too.
Also the spell is just like polymorph meaning you can only take on one form for the spell. You can't change forms, except to change back to your true form in which case the spell ends.
 

Storm Raven

First Post
Nail said:
Look: How is helping in combat any more immediate than granting a wish (1 standard action)?

Easy. It mimics a spell that requires an experience point cost. Hence, it is more than an "immediate task like helping in combat."
 

Hardhead

First Post
Storm Raven said:
Nope. Use of spell-like abilities to mimic spells that require experience point costs are never immediate tasks. Sorry.

Can you cite the rule you're quoting? It takes one standard action. It doesn't cost the efreet any XP. I wouldn't allow it, but from a pure reading of the rules, it seems to work.
 
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ciaran00

First Post
Nail said:
Nice try at solving the problem, but this too will fail.

If items and peices cease to exist when the spell ends, extrodinary abilities like poison and disease will also cease to exist when the spell ends.

The spell does NOT say the peices or items dissapear when the spell ends. The spell implies quite the opposite.
Of course they cease to exist. You can't CURE people anymore. Doesn't mean that time reverses and they don't get cured in the past because the spell ran out. See the distinction? Next point, please.

ciaran
 


ciaran00

First Post
Also, any DM worth his salt will make sure that any wish from an efreeti is NOT worth 1,000 or even 1,000,000 XP. I would *totally* grant the wish. My players would be smart enough never to ask.

ciaran
 
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Nail

First Post
ciaran00 said:
Of course they cease to exist. You can't CURE people anymore. Doesn't mean that time reverses and they don't get cured in the past because the spell ran out. See the distinction? Next point, please.
I think you've missed the point.....anyway.....
 

Hardhead

First Post
ciaran00 said:
Also, any DM worth his salt will make sure that any wish from an efreeti is NOT worth 1,000 or even 1,000,000 XP. I would *totally* grant the wish. My players would be smart enough never to ask.

ciaran

So you'd grant the wish and then screw them over somehow? Wish says "You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)" If they just wish for something that falls under one of the "standard" uses though, there's nothing you can do, unless you house rule Wish.
 

The Hanged Man

First Post
Nail said:
Arg.

Look: How is helping in combat any more immediate than granting a wish (1 standard action)?

The issue is whether it's "more involved," not "longer." The actual rule is:

If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service.

Gate already says you can freely order the creature to act for one round/level. "More involved" means something other than just "longer than one round per level," or else the phrase "more involved" is meaningless - any exception would already be covered by the "longer" language.

Although "more involved" isn't defined anywhere, granting a wish seems well within a "more involved" activity. It is the most "involved" thing that can be asked. Although creatures w/ wishes as SU abilities don't pay an XP cost (usually), IMO wishes are the sort of "more involved" activity addressed by the spell. Actually, if wishes aren't "more involved," it's hard to imagine what would be, as death through combat is not.

Also, you couldn't use an efreet wish to get a ring of three wishes. It's outside the wish guidelines, as too expensive.
 

Camarath

Pale Master Tarrasque
Nail said:
Huh.

I guess I can't see the problem; it's a 4th level spell, after all, of rather limited utility. Care to elaborate? Experiences?
Nevermind my post I think I interpreted what was meant by grapple attempt wrong. I was think about actions attempted in a grapple rather than an attempt to start a grapple. Sorry about that.
 
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isoChron

First Post
Does anybody else see a problem with Blasphemy ?
Balor and his poor Kobold wait for party. (Some tunnel or narrow passage perhaps.)
1. Balor casts Blasphemy (no one in the group is level 20) and all are dazed and can take no action at all.
2. Kobold starts killing party one by one while Balor casts Blasphemy (at will!) every round.
3. TPK...
Am I missing something ? Even 6 characters of Level 19 have no chance against this trap. (OK, being evil helps :) )
 

Darklone

Registered User
Ok. Freedom of Movement: I think I remember that the spell description used the expression grapple attempt... e.g. the initial grapple check to start a grapple, nothing else during a normal grapple.

Blasphemy... Isn't there a limited area of effect? I'd expect any group of that level NOT to be caught in such a small area. Ask my level 1 players about sleep. If they are all in the area of effect... they deserve to be dead.

SRD: Blasphemy
Evocation [Evil, Sonic]
Level: Clr 7, Evil 7
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft.
Area: Nonevil creatures in a 40-ft.-radius spread centered on you
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None or Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
Any nonevil creature within the area of a blasphemy spell suffers the following ill effects.
HD Effect
Equal to caster level Dazed
Up to caster level –1 Weakened, dazed
Up to caster level –5 Paralyzed, weakened, dazed
Up to caster level –10 Killed, paralyzed, weakened, dazed
The effects are cumulative and concurrent.
No saving throw is allowed against these effects.
Dazed: The creature can take no actions for 1 round, though it defends itself normally.
Ok. At first: The kobold can't CDG dazed creatures. So it'll take some time for him to kill anyone. SR helps... how many players might have that?
Second: What is right, 30ft Range or 40ft radius???????
 
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Endur

First Post
Any GM worth mentioning will laugh at you if you try Balor Mining or Infinite Inherent bonuses.

Just because you can open a Gate, doesn't mean the Solar or other creature has to grant you a wish for free.

Likewise, just because most Balors have a vorpal sword, doesn't mean you get one when you shapechange into a Balor. Most GMs are going to treat the SU Vorpal Sword as a typo. The Sword is equipment, not a part of the creature. Its just listed on the SU line because the Sword is worth more than the treasure the creature would normally have.

With regards to Blasphemy, it is a dangerous spell. Particularly when you can cast it over and over again. Being Dazed forever is no fun. Hopefully, you'll have someone in your party who is immune to Daze. Or you'll know ahead of time what you face, and cast silence.
 
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MerakSpielman

First Post
On getting Efreet to cast Wish for you.... This seems pointless for the purpose of getting inherent bonuses. In order to get greater than a +1 bonus, the wishes have to be cast in immediate succession, and you'll never be able to get higher than a +5 in any case.
.
..
Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
 

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