Listening for something that's not moving

[Magus Coeruleus]

I find the Listen/Move Silently rules a bit lacking in some respects. My main gripe is it's not clear (to me, anyway) what the DC should be for hearing someone who's not moving at all. The closest I can tell is just the Move Silently check, but this assumes the target is moving up to normal speed. Should the DC be higher if the target isn't moving at all?

Consider this: People whispering has a DC of 15. A normal person with a Dex 10 will usually set the Listen DC to about 10 with a Move Silently check. Okay, I can understand it being harder to hear people whispering than it is to hear a commoner trying to move quietly, but I can't accept that it's also harder than hearing a commoner sitting in a chair doing nothing but breathing (not even whispering).

This isn't even necessarily an issue of trying to be quiet. Sometimes very little noise is made because somebody happens to be pretty still. I think it should compound, however, if you're keeping still AND trying to be quiet.

What do you people do when your PCs listen at the door and there's someone inside who is doing nothing much (sleeping, daydreaming, reading a book, etc.) or who expects them and is standing very still trying not to be heard and NOT taking any moves?

MC

 

[Drawmack]

wouldn't being perfectly still qualify as a take 20 on move silently?

 

[PattonDM]

This question came up recently in my game.

I set it to Base DC of 15 (whispering) and modified it based on circumstances.

+2 for Door
+1 DC/10ft
-4/+4 per size category etc.
+5 standing still
-4 through +4 background noise

In my case, a group of loud, well lit PC's were trampling through the Underdark. Drow were waiting in ambush.

I set the encounter distance at 200ft (the distance the drow could spot the 6 players holding torches). The players had a max range of 60ft darkvision so they couldn't spot the Drow, but I did have them roll a listen check each round starting at DC 36 (+5 standing still, -4 silent cave, +20 distance). The next round, some of the drow crept closer as the players continued on unaware (failed listen). I rolled a move silently check v.s.PC's listen to hear the approaching Drow and 1 PC druid made the roll. The Drow and Druid began a surprise round while the other PC's wondered what all the fuss was about.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

I was looking through the DMG and noticed the following:

A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Spot check. The observer gains a hunch that “something’s there” but can’t see it or target it accurately with an attack. A creature who is holding still is very hard to notice (DC 30).

Note that the DC is 10 higher when the invisible creature is holding still versus active. Granted, this section is covering Spot checks, not Listen checks, but perhaps one could use this as a precedent.

The standard DC for Listen is 10 (someone with no skill and average Dex using Move Silently while moving up to half speed). Someone whispering is DC 15. It seems reasonable then that someone holding still is DC 20, i.e. 10 better than normal Move Silently. I wouldn't technically call holding still "taking 20" on Move Silently, but I agree with Drawmack that there is something intuitive about giving them 20 + Move Silently for keeping still, and this fits it.

Since people whispering is DC 15, i.e. 5 higher than if they were holding still (according to the proposed mechanism) but 5 lower than if they were moving up to half speed, perhaps we can infer the following modifiers to a base Listen DC of 10 (or to a Move Silently roll):

DC mod Condition
-20.......Heavy activity (e.g. a battle; actively calling for help; running or charging)
-10.......Solid activity (e.g. people talking at normal volume; parlor music)
-5........Moderate activity (e.g. movement at normal speed; rummaging through a sack of junk)
+0........Light activity (e.g. movement at half speed; eating with utensils at a table)
+5........Very light activity (e.g. people whispering; turning pages of a book and sipping a drink)
+10.......Nil activity (e.g. holding still; unconscious but breathing)

If you add the base of 10 to the values on the list, you reconstruct the original Listen table DCs for battle, talking, moving at half speed, and whispering, as well as the moving at full speed from the Move Silently description. The last row contains the proposed number for virtually no activity. I've added what I think are appropriate additional examples for each category.

I'd be interested to know what people think, or if people have alternative suggestions dealing with this.

Thanks,
MC