Living Campaigns

[MerricB]

Living Green Regent (forgotten realms) and Living Ebberon are pretty terrible systems (IE thier record keeping/advancement/treasure system, not the actual worlds), and thier low popularity reflects that.

There are no such things as Living Green Regent or Living Eberron.

They follow a different campaign model, better suited for more casual players that can't make the commitment to a Living campaign.

The Green Regent campaign finished over a year ago (IIRC); Mark of Heroes is also over, and the Xen'drik Expeditions - which takes a few lessons learnt from the first two campaigns - probably will only go another year, if that.

Cheers!

 

[kenobi65]

The Green Regent campaign finished over a year ago (IIRC); Mark of Heroes is also over, and the Xen'drik Expeditions - which takes a few lessons learnt from the first two campaigns - probably will only go another year, if that.

I believe that Legacy of the Green Regent ended 2 or 3 years ago, actually...though, IIRC, there was a long wait to see if the final module would ever be released (I'm not sure if it ever was).

Xen'drik, IIRC, is supposed to wrap up with modules released at Origins next June (the final Living Greyhawk core module, a two-round special, is also supposed to premiere there).

 

[Glyfair]

They follow a different campaign model, better suited for more casual players that can't make the commitment to a Living campaign.

That covers it pretty closely. The Living Campaigns are best suited for either a tightly knit group of regulars or a large group with a wide diversity of players. They aren't so good in the middle when a new player showing up either forces an experienced group to start new, low level, characters or play a 1st level character in a high level campaign.

The D&D Campaigns model is much better for venues like the one where I play. We have had at most 2 tables, and a rotating cast of players. We have a few regulars and about half of each game is occasional or new players. A new player can jump in and start playing at a level close to the rest of the group, even when the party is very experienced.

Unfortunately, it looks like it is completely dead in my area. Most of the players hate the arcane rules for character creation, and the huge amount of paperwork involved.

 

[wanderer9]

If you really want to see the reactions to the news, go read the LG board over on the WotC boards, or the Living Greyhawk Yahoo group.

I would love to by my access at work to those sites is blocked whilest I can access En World (thank goodness for small mercys).

 

[BluSponge]

The cancellation of LG and the announcement of LFR has pretty much done the RPGA for me. I never played Living City and have horror stories of being trapped by people with 5" binders full of certs that wanted to "tell me about their character." I only became involved with the organization because of LG, and have invested time as both a player, a writer, and a triad member. As the last gasp of the Greyhawk setting, LG wasn't perfect, but it gave fans of that setting (like myself) an outlet.

I would have been perfectly happy with a campaign reboot. But that's not what I got. So I'll ride out the campaign and then be done with them.

Over the weekend at DragonCon, I had the pleasure of playing four rounds of Witch Hunter: Dark Providence. So once LG is done, I'll still have a reason to go to local cons and game days for gaming -- but it won't be to support the RPGA. Which will probably save me a bit of cash in the meantime.

4e could turn out to be the greatest RPG ever envisioned by mankind, and LFR could be a fantastic campaign. But I have absolutely no interest in the Realms, so I won't be part of it.

Tom

 

[szilard]

I'm not really a fan of the shared-world stuff. I tend to find it unsatisfying.

On the other hand, I am curious to see how much LFR will depend upon the virtual game table and D&D Insider...

I can see some interesting possibilities there.

-Stuart

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

They changed worlds precisely to avoid having to convert PCs.

Converting PCs really isn't the only good choice though either.

WotC/RPGA HQ could have lept the timeline forward and kept the triads in place. Requiring all players to start new characters. This would have worked far better than converting to a new rule system. Unfortunately, I think that even this would have earned as much or as loud complaining as ending the campaign and setting.

I think the bigger reason for dropping Greyhawk and shifting to FR is because WotC wants to showcase FR. I'm pretty strongly convinced that when LG was started WotC/RPGa HQ had no idea how successful LG would become. If they knew what LG would become, I believe, WotC/RPGA HQ would have chosen FR from the start instead of Greyhawk. The rules update is a very convenient event to make it happen.

Maybe that's a bit cynical, but even if that speculation is true, I hold no grudges over WotC making the decision.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

WotC/RPGA HQ could have lept the timeline forward and kept the triads in place. Requiring all players to start new characters. This would have worked far better than converting to a new rule system. Unfortunately, I think that even this would have earned as much or as loud complaining as ending the campaign and setting.

This was all covered at the RPGA members meeting at GenCon.

You pretty much have it correct. What was said was:

a) Forgotten Realms is WAY more popular than Greyhawk
b) More fans of a setting means more potential players
c) The RPGA only has enough resources (money, as well as time of the couple employees the RPGA has) to run 1 Living Campaign since they take way more administration than the D&D Campaigns games (Xen'drik Expeditions, Mark of Heroes)
d) Converting was not an option due to the problems converting from Living City and the statement from WOTC that no conversion document was going to come out
e) The RPGA is always going to use the newest rules of the game
f) The only options were a complete restart of LG using 4th edition rules or ending it and starting a new campaign
g) Starting a new campaign would allow them to make a couple of changes to fix problems they've had with LG but would have been a bad idea to change part way through the campaign.
h) They had held back creating a Forgotten Realms campaign previously since they didn't want the novels interfering with the campaign plot and vice versa.
i) The department that works on the novels at WOTC and the RPGA came to an agreement to integrate the novels into the campaign and vice versa.
j) Given the above information the only choice available was to start a new campaign in their most popular campaign setting.

 

[Badkarmaboy]

Concise and accurate Majoru, well put.

I had an opportunity to speak with Ian Richards from the RPGA at the Penny Arcade Expo a couple weeks ago. He said pretty much what Majoru put forth.

In a nutshell, trying to convert LG in the guise of a reboot or some form of conversion document would hurt and alienate players. Folks may say otherwise, experience says it would be a bad thing. Next, as we all know, FR is way more popular than Greyhawk. I saw first hand how many non-RPGA members stopped by the RPGA section of the expo, found out we were running Return to Undermoutain and signed up on the spot. Once they found out Living Realms was on the way they got really excited. We signed up 65 new RPGA members in three days. That's quite a few! Common thread with the newbies? "Hey, Living Realms? Sweet! I can make my PC from NWN, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, etc...". Plus, well..there's the whole Bob Salvatore thing that propels FR ahead in the public eye.

I'm a current Triad member, I run an RPGA gaming group, I'm an author for LG, and I'm sad to see it go. However, I totally understand why they made the decision they did and I think it was a smart decision (not an easy one, but a smart one). I've already applied to be an LFR Admin, in fact. I think it'll grow the hobby-which I think is a great thing.

For anyone who's interested, Xen'drik Expeditions had a really good turn out too. I really enjoy that campaign as well and I hope that it is brought back in another form in 4E along with some robust support for Eberron in general.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Concise and accurate Majoru, well put.

Thanks, I feel it comes in handy for my position: Point of Contact - Ket Triad, Living Greyhawk

*grin*