Lizardfolk = ECL 4?!?!

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Re: Me ;-)

Ummmmm..... The 9 Level half Orc babarian who can kick the snot out of him?

According to the rules he doesn't - it's that simple. Of course once he joins your party the DM can do whatever he likes, but the simple fact reamains that when the ogre joins the game he *should* have as much treasure as is dictated by his class level

That is not the rules. The ECL rules state that you get treasure in accordance with your character level including ECLs.

If you want to change that rule in your game, fine. But now you are longer debating the same issue as everyone else.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Re: Re: Re: Me ;-)

Quite a lot. By simply deciding what items are in the adventure a DM can exercise all sorts of controls. If the item is a standard sized rapier the orge has no use for except as a toothpick. A robe of wild shape is no good to the orge.

If the players are selling the DM is again in a totally commanding position, if your world is low magic it may be very difficult to sell magic items and impossible to purchase them (no buyers who can lay the money on the table and no sellers willing to part with the gear).

I said that the DM has nothing to do with treasure dsitrubution amongst the party and I stand by that. What is he going to do, enforce his favorite method of wealth distribution on the players? Hmm, D&D as a developping ground for communist theories...

As for selling items, a reasonable DM won't suddenly change the difficulty of selling and crafting items just to make life difficult for the ogre. That's called being an a$$.

You would know ahead of time of the difficulty of selling magic items in the gameworld and acquiring unusual ones. If it's extremely hard, few players would create a PC requiring rare and expensive equipment. Unless they are masochist or decide to create an ogre monk!

Let's assume that the environment is not unusually hostile to playing an ogre, shall we? Otherwise there is really no point in arguing, no one will play one.

In FR it won't be much of a problem.

 

[The Furious Puffin]

Re: Re: Me ;-)

Edit: I was infact wrong, and will shut up now before I put my boot futher in it

 

[tsadkiel]

Well said.

In other news, there has been a development in the ongoing saga of Sedek the lizardfolk druid. Looking back over the Monster Manual, I just realized that the lizardfolk DOESN'T get darkvision as I had first thought. Lizardfolk are considered humanoids, and humanoids don't get special vision unless their descriptions say so (and the lizardfolk entry doesn't). Monstrous humanoids, however, do get special vision. Lizardfolk seem more like monstrous humanoids than humanoids to me, but that's beside the point.

So that's one special power scratched off the list, and one more thing I'll have to add to Sedek's equipment list: torches.

I just gotta watch out for swamp gas.....

This is OT and not particularly helpful, but if I were your DM I'd suggest you use the Trandoshan stats from Star wars, which'd get you +2 Strength, -2 Dex, Darkvision, +1 natural Armor, and an ECL +0.

Gungans might work even better, except that they take a Wisodm penalty and they're, well, Gungans. Sure, you'd be called Lizardfolk, but you'd know . . .

 

[The Furious Puffin]

I said that the DM has nothing to do with treasure dsitrubution amongst the party and I stand by that. What is he going to do, enforce his favorite method of wealth distribution on the players? Hmm, D&D as a developping ground for communist theories...

As for selling items, a reasonable DM won't suddenly change the difficulty of selling and crafting items just to make life difficult for the ogre. That's called being an a$$.

You would know ahead of time of the difficulty of selling magic items in the gameworld and acquiring unusual ones. If it's extremely hard, few players would create a PC requiring rare and expensive equipment. Unless they are masochist or decide to create an ogre monk!

Let's assume that the environment is not unusually hostile to playing an ogre, shall we? Otherwise there is really no point in arguing, no one will play one.

In FR it won't be much of a problem.

I agree with everything you say you know ;-) - Especially the comment about changing the rules on someone, that is low.

But I still stand by the fact that, while the Ogre is worse in a toe to toe fight agaist his comrades at a Level One/Nine split the template is still balanced at ECL +8 because ALL levels have to be consisdered, not just the lowest possible.

I also agree will Mal Malenkirk in that monsters as PCs works much better in the FR setting

Edit: Removed a point after Axiomatic Unicorn pointed out my mistake

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Re: Re: Re: Me ;-)

Deleted message

 

[Wolfspider]

Hopefully Tooth and Claw will clarify all these little rules dealing with equipment value and such.

 

[Marshall]

But what about the ongoing adavantages of being massively strong and large. Non-combat brute strength challenges appear all the time in typical games. A Str of 26+ is going to make the other characters (even your barabrian) competely side characters when pure strength is the issue.

What about the ongoing DIS-advantages of -2 DEX, -4 INT(NO Skills), -4 CHA(social disaster). Not to mention you are Large.

Party goes into an inn, you bump your head on the ceiling rafters.
Youre skulking(Yeah, Right) down a 10' wide corridor x 10' high corridor, when you see that orc BRB ahead. Hah you cant even swing your Huge GS.
You get knocked unconcious, no-one in the party can move your 500lb+ carcass so you get left behind.

An ogre makes a good fighter, but even there it just takes the fighter template to the extreme.

+5 ECL Maybe

 

[Marshall]

Now I think we should move on to other monsters, like we're doing with the ogre, and debate the heck out of the given ECLs. The article in Dragon asked for input; I think we should give it to them.

Mwuahahahahaha!

OK Why the heck is a DOG ECL 3?!?

Just about all the animal are wayyyyyyy!!!! off.

 

[bret]

I would guess that the animal ECLs are way off because they didn't look at all the disadvantages.

No opposable thumbs, so weapons will not work. Lack of speach makes spell casting and communicating with other players tough. Need specialized versions of standard equipment such as cloaks. Those are the really big disadvantages I see.