Logic behind sales of "Expedition to Castle Greyhawk"?

[pedr]

In the future it would be a good idea to publish the RPGA modules.

Yes, yes it would

As someone who spends a lot of time on RPGA boards, the question "Can I get retired modules please?" comes up again, and again, and again. I've never written a module, but I'm aware that the contracts used to be written in such a way that it would have required a renegotiation for WotC to do anything with them past their RPGA retirement date (and, of course, the author could not redistribute them without removing all of the Greyhawk (etc) IP). Apparently the new contract is different, although whether that would allow WotC to distribute them in whatever form it chose I don't know. I would have thought a sensible contract would give WotC rights to distribute for RPGA purposes on the current terms (without remuneration for regional modules and for a token fee for cores, I believe?) and also have a more standard remuneration clause should WotC decide to publish the module commercially.

Having said that, I think that if regional modules were to be published there would have to be considerable additional co-ordination between regions to ensure that plotlines made sense and didn't clash or contradict one-another and, considering how labour-intensive LG is at the moment, that might be a step too far.

 

[TerraDave]

Scott (and James, Jason, Eric, and Mike):

I also want to thank you for your willingness to be this open and put with many of the posts on this thread. And it is very much appreciated by many Enworlders, even if they don't let you know it.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Perhaps the differentiation in Greyhawk could come from the method the books are intended to be used. One of the things I like about several of the Eberron setting books I've picked up is that they don't necessarily lock the DM into a version of events or even of a place. Its more of a toolbox approach, whereas FR is more of a "this bar is on this street in this town" in every campaign approach.

If Greyhawk was released with supplements that embrace the canon, which I think is a huge part of what defines Greyhawk, but adds possibilities tied around that wealth of history, I think that might be a point of differentiation that could work.

Another potential approach is to go "old school" by defining the setting almost entirely through adventures, which is really how the setting was developed for the first decade of its existence.

I'd be against a "reset" approach unless it was extremely well done; think the new Battlestar Galactica for example. If a Greyhawk "reset" were done by someone like Erik Mona, I'd be inclined to buy it, otherwise it would be a much tougher sell.

 

[Shadeydm]

I really don't see all the hate, flaming and tearing down people keep mentioning in this thread. Nor do I see any moderator warnings which usually accompany such posts.

 

[Maldin]

To be clear, all of these discussions happened before Scott's tenure.
Sounds like it might be a good idea to start them again.
--Erik

Hey Erik! If you and Scott can come to an agreement, you can count me in!
Maybe we can finally revive the work we started with the Living Greyhawk Journal in a BIG way.

Denis, aka "Maldin"
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com

 

[Deset Gled]

Personally, I'm kind of amazed that at how many people here don't understand the logic behind releasing a product to test the market. That's pretty much the same business strategy I see being used every day in every industry. When you want to break into a new market, you release a limited product to test the market and see if it sells. If it does, you complete the rest of the product line. If it doesn't, you didn't waste the time and money. Sure, the test offering won't have as many options or be as complete as the product line will be when finished. That's the point, because developement and marketing of a complete line costs a lot of money.

For example, my company is breaking into the "hazardous location" market (i.e. industrial products that have special ratings for use in areas where there's lots of gasoline, acetelyne, etc). Unfortunately, there are a vast variety of protection methods and rating organization to deal with. So, we started by releasing a limited product with a specific rating from a specific organization. If it sells well, we'll increase the number of types of ratings that we manufacture. If it doesn't, we'll drop the line.

Another example would be when Coke first started the concept of the "fridge packs" instead of the old fashioned 12 packs. It's expensive to change over every cardboard plant from one shape and printing design, so they did a limited test run in the midwest. Only after the test run showed increases in the number of 12 packs sold did they put it into mass production across the entire US.

For those of you that seem opposed to it, how else do you expect WotC to judge the market? Sure, we know that there's interest in Greyhawk, but how do we know that anyone is willing to pay for it?

 

[GVDammerung]

If the 'Expedition to...' mega-adventure sells (and I'm sure it will), the next best move for WotC would be a re-issue of the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer. It would be an as-is (perhaps with any 3.5isms needed, but that could be covered in an on-line conversion if required) which would help pick up the people who have come in from Dungeon's AP's and RPGA events.

I've seen this idea come up a fair bit - reprint the Living Greyhawk Gazateer and GH fans will be satisfied/pleased/have their needs addressed. I disagree.

I think the reprint LGG idea falters for two reasons. First, the Living Greyhawk Campaign has moved well beyond the LGG. A reprinted LGG would be out of date for Living Greyhawk the moment it was reprinted and then of little use to Living Greyhawk players. Second, even the authors of the LGG have stated their belief that the LGG was not exactly a scintilating read, being rather more dry than they would have liked. I agree with that assessment. As a consequence, I don't believe a reprinted LGG would do much to expand the audience for Greyhawk at all. It is not the right vehicle.

And then there is the entire "to similar to FR" factors to be considered on top of matters.

IMO, reprinting the LGG would not be a good move for Greyhawk's future, and I doubt a reprint would sell very well on top of that, for the two reasons set out above. The better thought, IMO, would be to come at the setting with fresh eyes and fresh writing, calculated to achieve specific goals - win a new GH audience without cannibalizing FR's audience.

YMMV.

 

[Henry]

I really don't see all the hate, flaming and tearing down people keep mentioning in this thread. Nor do I see any moderator warnings which usually accompany such posts.

Rest assured we're watching said line, and if we decide it gets crossed between "negativity" and "abusiveness" we'll take care of it. I don't mind people being negative, even if it's for the sake of being negative, which I dislike. wW try to encourage all opinions -- it's part of the hassles of presenting ANYTHING for public consumption. But any time it gets to personal attacks it's going to be reined in, which it hasn't hit yet.

 

[GVDammerung]

Personally, I'm kind of amazed that at how many people here don't understand the logic behind releasing a product to test the market. . . . how else do you expect WotC to judge the market? Sure, we know that there's interest in Greyhawk, but how do we know that anyone is willing to pay for it?

A good point. I think from my perspective it is the idea that the "test" consists of releasing an adventure for an out of print setting that is what makes the "test" seem something less than it might be. While still of some use as a test, with the setting out of print, I think the value of the mega-adventure test is somewhat diminished. Perhaps a better test would be to release a limited campaign setting along the design philosophy of Ghostwalk. Not a full blown GHCS but a subset thereof. Arguably this could be just the Flanaess, as the GH setting is more than the Flanaess, or some portion of the Flanaess otherwise. Link that up with the mega-adventure and I think you'd have a much better "test." We are beyond that point now but if Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk sells well, I think a possible followup or further test could be a limited campaign setting or subsetting much like Ghostwalk.

 

[Mortellan]

Reprinting the LGG: No, complete waste of paper unless reformatted or updated for 5-6 years of LG play.
Printing retired LG mods: Yes, but only the best of them, or at least the Cores.
Restarting GH: Risky but might be the only compromise to bring all the factions of GH fans together at one spot (given the right authors).