logic of low POD sales?

madelf

First Post
I'm curious if anyone has thoughts on this...

From what I can tell, the general concensus seems to be that POD products don't sell spectacularly well. But it seems counter intuitive at first glance (at least to me). The biggest downside to PDF products would seem to be the need to print them out. A POD product (if priced reasonably) wouldn't likely equal the cost of printing and binding and would certainly result in a nicer final package.

So why don't they sell?

Is it the lack of instant gratification that PDFs offer?
Is there a perception that POD products are poor quality?
Is the option simply not being used enough to have gained popularity?
Does the (generally) small size of PDF products make them not cost effective in POD format?
Is it simply that RPGnow has become the place for PDFs, and the people who go there are just not interested in printed products?

On the surface, a POD service similar to the one at RPGnow/mall would seem to be almost ideal for the small indy publisher on a budget. Yet it doesn't seem to be the case. And I have to wonder why.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Some it might be the price. I think when I saw the price of a POD was 37$, and that seemd very high. I have not done a comparison of prices between pdfs and their PODs. Personally, I've only picked up a few PODs at cons.
 

Crothian said:
Some it might be the price. I think when I saw the price of a POD was 37$, and that seemd very high. I have not done a comparison of prices between pdfs and their PODs. Personally, I've only picked up a few PODs at cons.
Well that seems like a logical consideration. Let me ask you this...

If a game book which was available in POD (for internet or mail order) was priced comparably to a standard print game book of roughly the same size and content that wasn't on the shelf at the FLGS, but could be special ordered.... would the POD book have the same appeal? Or are there other factors for you that seperate a POD book from an ordinary print book? What if the book was not specified as being POD, but was simply available from the publisher's website (rather than RPGmall) without mention of the printing method?

As for the PODs you've picked up at cons, did you feel they would be as good as any other printed book, or did the fact that they were POD make you expect them to be inferior in some way? And do you feel that they actually were inferior, or as good as any other book?

If it's not apparent from these questions, I'm also wondering about the perceived differences between POD books and standard print run books. Book for book, price for price, are they on an equal footing? Or does the standard book have an advantage at the consumer level?
 


I imagine it could be the feel of new product, a POD or PDF cannot give you that feeling of a brand new book just waiting to be bought at my FLGS. Price is always a factor with gamers unless it is something they believe that will set them apart give them the edge make them the best. The they will spend like drunken sailor in port on liberty.

It could also be that the technologoy is to far ahead at this time to be appreciatied.
Lets look at moving type verses hand written scribed paper/ Until the Black Plauge caused the price of paper to drop books were to expencive.

I just have a gut feel that PDF is the way of the future, but then again it is 2004 and I still do not have my flying car, may vaction to Saturn, or my robot house cleaner.
 

Well, as I sit here staring at a 6 year old box of books I had done via POD back in 1998, there are some issues that keep pdf publishers from using POD.

1.) Cost issues - PODs are more expensive in all aspects. Not only is the per unit printing cost more expensive, but the shipping is drastically more expensive when shipping box by box, rather than pallets at a time. On top of that, even though the books are done up on digital printing equipment, a lot of POD print shops insist on continuing to charge exorbant setup fees, even though there's literally less than 5 minutes of set up time involved, as opposed to the hours it can take to set up a job for a traditional print run. This leads to pricing issues, like the $37+ price tag on at least one POD at RPGMall.

2.) Shortcomings of the RPGMall system - RPGMall is built to automatically support distribution, but the model is, to be honest, all messed up.

Here's the typical model:
a.) Publisher pays to print
b.) publisher pays to ship to distributor
c.) publisher gets paid by distributor, usually 40 cents on the dollar
d.) retailer orders from distributor
e.) retailer pays for product, usually at a rate of $0.60 to $0.75 on the dollar, AND shipping from distributor depending on the size of the order. Order enough at one shot and not only do you max out your discount on the sliding scale, but some distributors will even pick up the tab for shipping as well.

Here's the RPGMall model:
a.) publisher pays to print
b.) publisher pays to ship to RPGMall
c.) retailer orders
d.) publisher pays to ship to retailer.
e.) retailer pays RPGMall, likely $0.60 on the dollar, though the discount is flat rate and set by the publisher, so not all products ship with the same percentage discount.
f.) RPGMall takes its cut and pays the publisher $0.36 on the dollar

Under the RPGMall model, the publisher gets screwed twice by not only receiving a smaller end percentage of the retail value, but by also being forced to play a guessing game of factoring RPGMall-to-retailer shipping fees into the MSRP as well (and for this purpose, RPGMall doesn't even provide the vendor information on the shipping method they choose to use to ship to retailers). On top of this, the RPGMall storefront isn't built to provide a discount to the consumers ordering directly from RPGMall, meaning that the consumers both foot the bill for the factored in RPGMall-to-retailer shipping fees as well as the separate shipping fees RPGMall charges the consumer. And to top it off, RPGMall gets a bigger cut of the gaming dollar than most distributors as well ($0.24 on the dollar, compared to the $0.20 on the dollar that distributors get for the majority of their orders).

This leads to an inflated high retail price that keeps publishers, retailers, and consumers away. If RPGMall restructured to match the standard distro model, retail prices there would be more realistic and draw in more products and sales. POD books should cost no more than $5.00 more than the same product in a traditional print run (and that $5 is for BIG, 300+ page books, most books would only be $1 to $2 more).

RPGMall isn't the only problematic POD source. Every time I've had to deal with Lightning Source, they have gone out of their way to screw me over in every last effort to maximize the setup fees they can charge me ($470 in setup fees for 1 book, plus $148 for the first 25 units, or a total of $618, not including shipping. Same done via RPGMall would be about $110 for 25 units w/o shipping). Another POD shop, BookSurge... well, they charge ridiculous rates, up to 250% of other POD shops, plus a setup fee. Bad for business since they're trying to target the RPG industry. And lulu.com, well, you don't know what you're getting into until you set up your first product. They do a lousy, lousy, horrible, nasty job of detailing thier system and fees, so I can't tell if they're advantageous or not. Lulu also has a problem with unusually thin cover stock and odd colors they choose for their page stock (I've heard stories about books printed by them with pink or blue pastel colored paper stock).

2.) Quality - To date, POD still isn't as good as traditional print. They just don't feel right. This is because the pages are done via laserjet, so they just don't feel the same as a page printed via offset press. The other difference is with the covers, with laminates that just don't quite feel right. Don't get me wrong; POD books in the long run are just as durable as traditional print, assuming they come from a reputable print shop. A lot of people just aren't ready to overlook this insignificant difference in perceived quality.

3.)Print Shop Unreliability - I can remember the early days of POD, before the concept was reality, when some unscrupulous but enterprising folks would essentially POD many netbooks in their own basements. The idea survives today on the smaller con circuits, with shady POD sources out there. One can buy an old $200 PII or PIII, a $150 B/W laserjet, $500 color laserjet, and a $400 pad binder and produce POD books that will look and feel like what you can get done in a pro shop. Problem is, about a week after the con, the book falls apart (it's bound like a pad of blank paper, rather than a perfectbound book, after all), and leaves a string of unhappy consumers who want nothing more to do with POD products. Yup you can print a nice looking POD book on a system costing $1200 or a system costing $35,000. Only immediate difference people notice is how long the finished goods last. This is a big reason why LightningSource insists on slapping its logo someplace on your book, so consumers can identify product from at least one reputable POD shop.

To be honest, POD is a good idea for publishers, big and small. In the long run, factoring in all the costs and savings, POD is only slightly more expensive than traditional printing, with the added and always unfactored benefit of immunity to catastrophic incidents. If your storage burns to the ground, replacing the minimal stock you had stored is a simple task without undue financial burden, something that could take months, even years to recover from with traditional printing, and only if you have the finances to recover to begin with.
 
Last edited:

marketingman said:
I just have a gut feel that PDF is the way of the future, but then again it is 2004 and I still do not have my flying car, may vaction to Saturn, or my robot house cleaner.

As I sit here and poke my roomba with a toe as it recharges itself, all I can say is don't be a cheapskate and spend the $200 to get your very first robot house cleaner.

:D
 

Well would it be possible to bring the small publishers under and umbrella POD service.
Or find an inexpence print run in (I know boo hiss) China, Singapore,Canada, Or Mexico.
Or even in the USA.
Maybe we need a POD eye for the Gaming Guy type of marketing make over.
Dana Good post very informative and enlightening.
 

marketingman said:
Well would it be possible to bring the small publishers under and umbrella POD service.
Or find an inexpence print run in (I know boo hiss) China, Singapore,Canada, Or Mexico.
Or even in the USA.
Maybe we need a POD eye for the Gaming Guy type of marketing make over.
Dana Good post very informative and enlightening.

An umbrella POD service is unlikely, as it requires investment on the part of the publishers, to the tune of a combined $25,000 to $35,000. If you're using POD to begin with, then you can't afford the money to invest.

Using a foreign printer is a bad idea as well. First, there's no way to check the work until you have it. It isn't like you can simply drive from the U.S. to Singapore to check on facilities, workmanship, etc. And to top it off, there's a horrid delivery time of weeks as you wait for a container ship to slowly make its way to the U.S., and then you wait for a truck to haul your cargo across the country.

POD requires two things:
First is a dedicated distributor that has itself structured the same way as distributors like Alliance or Blackhawk. Unfortunately, POD and the partial collapse of the industry weren't timed to coincide. Back then the distributors were thinning the herd of the games they carried way back in 1995-98, it was the opportune time for a new distributor to appear that specialized in providing service to lots of small publishers on an exclusive basis while ignoring the big companies. The same sort of exclusive dedication to POD would work for a new distributor now. Anyway, such a distributor would help knock the POD MSRPs down to a reasonable price.

Second is for a lot of publishers to use POD, maybe even have numerous products limited to POD only. If POD books were commonplace in the market, perhaps people would overcome the perception of lower quality and buy them regularly, allowing more and more product to shift to POD, feeding a cycle.
 

Ahh, POD. I use POD to publish novels, and it's tricky. A few thoughts come to mind:

1. There is the quality issue. My goal is to make a POD book look more like a standard print book, but it's tough. Much relies on what the printer uses for the cover paper, etc. But I'm fairly happy with how they've turned out.

2. Price. If done right, the price isn't bad. The problem is that most POD companies (and I suspect RPGMall is the same) are really just resellers, so in marking up the price so they make money, the price becomes too high. After a lot of research, we discovered that going to the source (the company that physically prints the books) saves money. But to do that, you have to be a publishing company with ISBN numbers and all. But doing that saves a lot of money. Costs us $100 to set up a novel, and we can price a Trade Paperback as low as $12.95. (Trade Paperbacks in book stores are generally in the $14-$17 range.)

3. In theory, the end user shouldn't even have to know they're purchasing a POD product. Unless they receive it and the quality is low. All they should know is that they are buying a regular print product.

Anyway, that's about it. If you want to read a good investigative article about POD, go here. But keep in mind that this article comes from the point of view of publishing novels. Still some good information.
 

Remove ads

Top