Loki! (spoiler thread)

[Umbran]

The existence of the grass after the Reset Charge goes off doesn't necessarily mean that the entire section wasn't disintegrated. That grass presumable existed before and would exist after the infected section of the timeline is pruned, so it would appear as if it hadn't been affected. The same would go for the other things that appeared to be unaffected.

Yeah, but if it is replaced by... an exact different version of itself, that should still result in no significant change. Certainly, you shouldn't be able to create a divergent timeline by disintegrating stuff only to have it replaced by exact duplicates. A new timeline requires a significant change to have occurred.

The enemy Loki probably has specific vulnerable points in time that are all being disintegrated at once.

Does anyone else notice the inherent illogic in having differing points in the time disintegrated "at once"? I expect this represents a fundamental flaw in their time-travel logic, but okay, we'll have to live it with, because comic books.

 

[tomBitonti]

Yeah, but if it is replaced by... an exact different version of itself, that should still result in no significant change. Certainly, you shouldn't be able to create a divergent timeline by disintegrating stuff only to have it replaced by exact duplicates. A new timeline requires a significant change to have occurred.


Does anyone else notice the inherent illogic in having differing points in the time disintegrated "at once"? I expect this represents a fundamental flaw in their time-travel logic, but okay, we'll have to live it with, because comic books.

It seems that the TVs links to the timeline when dealing with a deviant. There was a discussion about needing to go real-time or something like that. Then the monitoring was occurring at the same “time” as the bombing, and should detect these all at the same time.

what seems to not work is why don’t they detect all deviants at the same time —.in their independent TVs time bubble? If the are monitoring all of the time stream from outside of the stream, they should see deviancy as fixed events in the stream.

TomB

 

[Morrus]

The know who he is. They will be on the lookout for devious scheming. Playing the fool is a way of putting people off their guard. Also a way of staving off boredom when you are the smartest person in the room.

If. I'd like to think that's what's going on, but ... well, I've watched a lot of TV in my time. Usually it's not.

 

[Umbran]

what seems to not work is why don’t they detect all deviants at the same time —.in their independent TVs time bubble? If the are monitoring all of the time stream from outside of the stream, they should see deviancy as fixed events in the stream.

We can perhaps cover this by noting that Mobius tells us that, at least from the TVA's perspective, the Time Keepers are still unraveling the future from its myriad alternate timelines - the end of the Universe is not yet written.

Thus, the TVA is outside the MCU time stream, but is not "timeless" - it has its own internal timestream of the Time Keepers (if they exist).

The TVA's version of the time-ordering of variants would then largely arbitrary. They see all of Lady-Loki's variants happening "at once" because a team from the TVA was in the Sacred Timmeline, but in communication with a point in the TVA's internal timeline - while they are so, the timelines are "matched up", forcing related time-ordering until the connection is broken.

 

[Zaukrie]

Great writing and acting. Love the tone. And yet, I'm not sure if I love the show. I agree with morrus, Loki seems ridiculously weak so far.

 

[MarkB]

We can perhaps cover this by noting that Mobius tells us that, at least from the TVA's perspective, the Time Keepers are still unraveling the future from its myriad alternate timelines - the end of the Universe is not yet written.

Thus, the TVA is outside the MCU time stream, but is not "timeless" - it has its own internal timestream of the Time Keepers (if they exist).

The TVA's version of the time-ordering of variants would then largely arbitrary. They see all of Lady-Loki's variants happening "at once" because a team from the TVA was in the Sacred Timmeline, but in communication with a point in the TVA's internal timeline - while they are so, the timelines are "matched up", forcing related time-ordering until the connection is broken.

It might turn out that the TVA's internal timelines aren't so orderly. Going back to the scene between Mobius and his overseer where he doesn't recognise the pen she hands him, another explanation for this that occurred to me is that maybe their interactions don't occur in a consistent chronological order.

Maybe she has the pen because he gave it to her in her past, but he doesn't recognise it because he won't acquire it and pass it on to her until sometime in his future.

 

[Zaukrie]

What was Mobius’ reply in the free will discussion? Also, if Loki can duplicate himself, but not communicate with his duplicate, that seems risky for him somehow. I assume he can't communicate with himself, as he went in person to communicate with what he thinks is himself.

 

[MarkB]

What was Mobius’ reply in the free will discussion? Also, if Loki can duplicate himself, but not communicate with his duplicate, that seems risky for him somehow. I assume he can't communicate with himself, as he went in person to communicate with what he thinks is himself.

If I understood his explanation of the difference between his powers and simple illusion magic, one of those differences is that when he creates a duplicate he can perceive the world from its perspective. So he'd be tucked away somewhere being invisible, but able to act and perceive as though he were the duplicate.

 

[Zaukrie]

If I understood his explanation of the difference between his powers and simple illusion magic, one of those differences is that when he creates a duplicate he can perceive the world from its perspective. So he'd be tucked away somewhere being invisible, but able to act and perceive as though he were the duplicate.

So he should have known or believed that he wasn't hunting himself? I'm unsure how it really works. Not being a comic reader.... There being a lot of him created, I'm not sure. They've disintegrated more versions of him than anyone else. Yet, he still exists.....if I understood that correctly.... What does that mean?

 

[MarkB]

So he should have known or believed that he wasn't hunting himself? I'm unsure how it really works. Not being a comic reader.... There being a lot of him created, I'm not sure. They've disintegrated more versions of him than anyone else. Yet, he still exists.....if I understood that correctly.... What does that mean?

We may be talking at cross purposes here. I was talking about the possibility that Loki substituted a duplicate of himself when he did the green flashy magic thing just after they entered the mall, and that the real Loki was off hiding or exploring invisibly elsewhere for the rest of the episode, while the Loki we followed on-screen was a duplicate - a solid, interactive illusion through which the real Loki could perceive, speak and act.