D&D 5E (2024) Long rests getting better but GM needs still not being considered

[Micah Sweet]

As someone who has played and DMed 3e, 4e and 5e extensively, it really wasn't. The biggest difference was the language used and the mechanics > fluff approach.

Those were more than enough differences for me.

 

[James Gasik]

I had a problem with long rests from the moment they were instituted in the Next playtest. It was obvious that this wasn't a narrative mechanic; it was intended to be a "after X encounters, recover abilities". But by saying "it takes Y hours", it became rather immersion breaking.

One of the Next adventures had you exploring some ruins while trying to track down some enemies. After a few minor encounters (like, literally "three orcs"), we found some clues about where to go.

The DM says "ok, you travel for two weeks and get to..." and the players immediately started adjusting their hit points and so on, naturally assuming they got a long rest.

"No no no, you don't get a long rest, this is still the same game day."

From a mechanical standpoint, sure that made sense. But in the narrative, it was such a disconnect that several people just checked out and stopped taking the adventure seriously.

 

[mellored]

Meanwhile I wish 6e would be based on exactly that... every class being warlock

Yeah, that's a common complaint with AEDU, and one the devs tried to address with the 4e Essentials. I really like AEDU and see the 5e Warlock as the best designed class of the edition, but obviously YMMV.

I agree the warlock is the best designed class. But that doesn't mean I want every class to have the exact same design.

Artificer infusions and monks ki pool
for instance. Those are good mechanics as well (balance can be tweaked). Pathfinder 2 Swashbucklers is another one I really like. So is a 3.5 prepreare wizard (though IMO would go best with an alchemist, preparing potions each night).

And even if I will never personally play it, champion fighter should be included too. (Though IMO would go best with barbarian.).

 

[James Gasik]

The problem is, designing classes with different resource allocation is apparently too hard for WotC to balance in any real way. So depending on how the DM runs their games, some classes become much stronger or much weaker than intended.

Take AL for example. 3-4 encounters in a 2 hour session, maybe one short rest. People with daily resources clean up. Characters with encounter resources grumble a lot.

The reverse, an old style dungeon crawl, with many small encounters, where hiding in a broom closet for an hour is easy, but an 8 hour rest is impossible? Warlocks, Monks, and Battlemasters are raring to go while the full casters are like "dude, all we have is cantrips".

Now obviously, a mix of adventure styles would be best, but that's a lot of work to put on a DM, in my opinion.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

How do rests work in Pathfinder?

It seems I don't even remember how they worked in pre 4e D&D... But I don't think they were restoring everything in eight hours...

 

[Olrox17]

How do rests work in Pathfinder?

It seems I don't even remember how they worked in pre 4e D&D... But I don't think they were restoring everything in eight hours...

If I recall correctly, they restored all spells for spellcasters, and a piddly, pathetic fraction of hit points for everyone else (including casters). So yeah, not ideal and/or balanced.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If I recall correctly, they restored all spells for spellcasters, and a piddly, pathetic fraction of hit points for everyone else (including casters). So yeah, not ideal and/or balanced.

With spell slots it is rather tricky to come up with an easy and elegant system that would let you regain portion of your spells via resting. Arcane Recovery is already rather clunky, and that sort of mechanic wouldn't work if you wouldn't want the highest level of spells to be recharhable with one rest. With spell points it would be super easy, but those feel wrong for D&D.

 

[Shiroiken]

If the Doom Clock (or, less dramatically, a Consequence for the Passage of Time) is a bluff, no rules are going to help the DM resolve that situation.

This! If the players think there's no consequences, then they'll do what they want. This is not a failure of the rules, but a failure of DMing. I've never suffered much of an issue with the 5MWD, because I will adjust the adventure/world based on the actions of the players. Yeah, this might be more work and it might end your carefully crafted campaign, but if the players can get away with bad behavior, your campaign is going to be ruined anyway.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yeah the idea the DM is breaking the trust as much as the players allegedly "abusing" the 5MWD there.

The DM's response should be "Didn't we agree not to abuse the 5MWD?" and then actual conversation about it,

I know I get flak on these boards for it but right there... that is the right answer. Talk, like adults (or as close to adults as a bunch of 40 and 50 year old dudes playing make believe get).

Not every 5mwd is abuse... sometimes it is the flow of the game, and sometimes players are tapping out "dude, I have no HD left 7 hp and our cleric is out of spells... If I take all our potions I might be at 3/4 hp but no resources, so no I am needing to recharge"

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This! If the players think there's no consequences, then they'll do what they want. This is not a failure of the rules, but a failure of DMing. I've never suffered much of an issue with the 5MWD, because I will adjust the adventure/world based on the actions of the players. Yeah, this might be more work and it might end your carefully crafted campaign, but if the players can get away with bad behavior, your campaign is going to be ruined anyway.

I just don't agree.

There's a reason that this isn't a problem in systems that aren't D&D or a close relative thereof.

It doesn't matter if your Doom clock is a bluff or not in most TTRPGs, and you don't need to some Vietnam war-era insanity where you "Had to destroy the campaign in order to save it!" (jesus wept lol - but that's genuinely what you seem to be saying).

Just fix the system so long rests aren't so central and OP or make it so that encounter where you blow all your resources actually works okay mechanically.