Longswords for Halflings in SRD?

[Hypersmurf]

I don't argee that they would only be half the size, or 1/2" wide.

My question wasn't 'half the size', my question was 'smaller'. There's variation among swords of the same type, sure. But I asked if the hilt of the average Small greatsword would be smaller than the average Medium longsword; the thinnest Small greatsword smaller than the thinnest Medium longsword; the thickest Small greatsword smaller than the thickest Medium longsword.

And you said no. The most slender, dainty Small greatsword would have a grip no smaller than the most slender, dainty Medium longsword. The fattest, chunkiest Medium longsword would not be any fatter or chunkier than the fattest, chunkiest Small greatsword.

-Hyp.

 

[Storyteller01]

My question wasn't 'half the size', my question was 'smaller'. There's variation among swords of the same type, sure. But I asked if the hilt of the average Small greatsword would be smaller than the average Medium longsword; the thinnest Small greatsword smaller than the thinnest Medium longsword; the thickest Small greatsword smaller than the thickest Medium longsword.

And you said no. The most slender, dainty Small greatsword would have a grip no smaller than the most slender, dainty Medium longsword. The fattest, chunkiest Medium longsword would not be any fatter or chunkier than the fattest, chunkiest Small greatsword.

-Hyp.

Then please define smaller. Odds are there no effective difference. If both weapons do the same damage, they will need to be the same width to maintain mass. I don't believe the difference would be beyond a few millimeters, grams, etc.


Although, if a race was designing a weapon to be used two-handed, to do as much damage as possible, I wouldn't call it dainty.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Then please define smaller. If the Small greatsword is wielding a blade with the same mass and damage potential as a Med longsword, I would say that any differences would be minor.

But the size of the hilt is not solely determined by the blade characteristics; it's also made to fit in someone's hand.

If the blades are similar, and the hands are radically different in size, will that not have an influence on the size of the hilt?

The average Small greatsword will have a hilt which works for the blade, and which is suited to Small hands. The average Medium longsword will have a hilt which works for the blade, and which is suited to Medium hands. So while there will be similarities, there will also be differences; on average, the Small hilt will be smaller than the Medium.

Perhaps not half the size, since the blade characteristics must be accounted for. Perhaps not sufficient to make it impractical to use. But noticeably different in design.

If two swords were laid next to each other, and you were told "One of these is a halfling greatsword, and one is a human longsword", you'd be able to confidently point to the greatsword after a quick glance.

-Hyp.

 

[Storyteller01]

But the size of the hilt is not solely determined by the blade characteristics; it's also made to fit in someone's hand.

If the blades are similar, and the hands are radically different in size, will that not have an influence on the size of the hilt?

The average Small greatsword will have a hilt which works for the blade, and which is suited to Small hands. The average Medium longsword will have a hilt which works for the blade, and which is suited to Medium hands. So while there will be similarities, there will also be differences; on average, the Small hilt will be smaller than the Medium.

Perhaps not half the size, since the blade characteristics must be accounted for. Perhaps not sufficient to make it impractical to use. But noticeably different in design.

If two swords were laid next to each other, and you were told "One of these is a halfling greatsword, and one is a human longsword", you'd be able to confidently point to the greatsword after a quick glance.

-Hyp.

More than likely.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I've been cooking since I was 8 years old- I GUARANTEE you that the grip I have on my Hinkels now is FAR superior to the one I had 30 years ago.

Agreed. Now figure how easily that would have been at 8 if you had the str and experience you have now.

There would be no change- the Hinkels was simply too large for my hands for me to get any leverege, and it easily escaped my grip if I tried to apply any real force. To cut anything with it tougher than butter, I had to use 2 hands. Either someone else had to hold my intended target or I had to use a smaller knife.

Quote:

Their dimensions probably would differ- Germans favored the flamberge design for a long time- and its possible that the swordsmen would suffer difficulties with the varied designs.

However, you're still talking about 2 weapons that, in D&D terms, would be identical AND made to the scale of their wielders.

But you're saying that it's differences similar to these that cause small creatures to suffer a penalty.

Yes, and I said that it was possible that even with weapons this similar, RW swordsmen might notice and have difficulties with unfamiliar designs. I just don't know for sure.

D&D abstracts things like this to the point of there being no mechanical differences between varied regional designs.

It wouldn't be accurate. Small creatures weapons are expected to withstand the same impacts and regars of their medium counterparts. Many tolerances (width of the handguards, ratio of grip to tang, ratio to grip and blade length, etc) will remain the same for similarly sized weapons.

That perception is inaccurate and based upon the abstraction of the D&D system.

The ratio would indeed remain the same for analogous weapons, but this means a significant decrease in the strength of the smaller weapons.

As you change surface area, volume changes at a faster rate. Keeping the proportions of the weapons constant over the changes in size would result in smaller weapons having significantly less mass than their larger counterparts. Less mass means less durability...technically, it should have fewer HP (for sundering purposes).

Which is why I keep breaking my E and B strings on my guitar, and rarely break others.

 

[Hypersmurf]

More than likely.

And the same for a hill giant's (Large) shortsword and a human's (Medium) longsword?

Again, it seems to me that whatever superficial similarities, the giant's shortsword will be designed to fit in a giant's hand, and the human's longsword will be designed to fit in a human's hand, and the two will be obviously different. Perhaps not so as to make it impossible or even difficult for them to wield the other's weapon, but there will be a difference.

Would you suggest that the halfling can use the hill giant's shortsword as a greatsword with no trouble? Do you feel that the hilt will still fit in his hands so as not to cause any problem?

-Hyp.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

And the same for a hill giant's (Large) shortsword and a human's (Medium) longsword?

Again, it seems to me that whatever superficial similarities, the giant's shortsword will be designed to fit in a giant's hand, and the human's longsword will be designed to fit in a human's hand, and the two will be obviously different. Perhaps not so as to make it impossible or even difficult for them to wield the other's weapon, but there will be a difference.

Would you suggest that the halfling can use the hill giant's shortsword as a greatsword with no trouble? Do you feel that the hilt will still fit in his hands so as not to cause any problem?

-Hyp.

Hyp, you are not going to convince him, whether you are right or wrong actually has little bearing in this instance - he dislikes the new weapon sizes, and that is that.

Let him keep the old rules if it makes him happier, you can use the new rules if it makes you happier, and I can just be glad that the game we are discussing isn't Savage Worlds.... (I had the urge to thump someone today, following a similar 'Is!' 'Isn't!' argument. Folks like that are the reason I don't play GURPS... and now I can add Savage Worlds to that list.*)

The Auld Grump
*Not that I was likely to play it anyway, I had an allergic reaction to the Weird Science rules. The game is just way to simplified for my tastes.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

ok, here is an arguement, i want to know what people think. i know what raw is, so dont even start k? this is about what you guys think, not what you know

If a halfing were to find a shortsword of a humans, that was say a +3 sword, while his current long sword was only a +1, could this halfing create a new grip guard and pummal to fit the new +3 human short sword, so its wieldable as a longsword for the halfing with the +3 intact WITHOUT the -2?

alot of people seem to have problems with the hand sizes and how one holds a weapon, so if the grip was remade on the human short sword, would any one still have a problem?

 

[Storyteller01]

Would you suggest that the halfling can use the hill giant's shortsword as a greatsword with no trouble? Do you feel that the hilt will still fit in his hands so as not to cause any problem?

-Hyp.

This isn't part of the argument. The initial debate is about small critters using medium weapons, and vice versa.

 

[Storyteller01]

ok, here is an arguement, i want to know what people think. i know what raw is, so dont even start k? this is about what you guys think, not what you know

If a halfing were to find a shortsword of a humans, that was say a +3 sword, while his current long sword was only a +1, could this halfing create a new grip guard and pummal to fit the new +3 human short sword, so its wieldable as a longsword for the halfing with the +3 intact WITHOUT the -2?

alot of people seem to have problems with the hand sizes and how one holds a weapon, so if the grip was remade on the human short sword, would any one still have a problem?

Don't see why it wouldn't work. If you can shape a broken blade into a smaller weapon, don't see why you can't rebuild the handle.