Longtooth Elite shifter feat

RUMBLETiGER

Adventurer
I'm kicking around the idea of a Shifter Totemist, posted another question about the character design Here.

The Longtooth Elite shifter feat grants 1 CON damage with each successful bite attack. Now, does this apply to all bite attacks by that character or just the one granted during the limited duration of shifting?

If this PC gained another bite attack by, say, a soulmeld, would that also carry the CON damage? RAW says yes, RAI, I'm unsure.

Same question applies to Great Bite and Shifter Multiattack. None of these feats indicate they are only active during Shifting and seem like they would be very benefitial to a Totemist.
 
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Well the feat does say plural. The only way to actually get another bite attack via Totemist is the Threefold Mask of the Chimera as it is a headdress of multiple heads allowing the use of a head attack with your normal full attack routine, otherwise they overlap. It isn't that great of a totem bind as it for some reason does nothing with essentia. If you can get Rapid strike and a haste like effect you could decrease it by 4, but could be doubled via wounding.
The other feats really aren't worth it. Multiattack is strictly better as you get it much earlier as a Totemist. The other isn't going to shine because your base threat range bites.
If you are going the route of a shifter pouncer then Weretouched Master is a must. It gives two bonus shifter feats, animal linked abilities and a lycanthrope like alternate form based upon your trait. It is a much cheaper to get a werebear or weretiger like physical prowess. Also shifter savagery increases your threat range and it boosts your damage up two categories(4 with the capstone and totem avatar shoulder bind) while shifting and raging. I don't think I need to mention what that opens up.
 
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Well the feat does say plural. The only way to actually get another bite attack via Totemist is the Threefold Mask of the Chimera as it is a headdress of multiple heads allowing the use of a head attack with your normal full attack routine, otherwise they overlap.
Ankheg Breastplate, Behir Gorget, Brass Mane, Phase Cloak, Winter Mask, Worg Pelt all provide bite attacks in addition to Threefold Mask of the Chimera. Wouldn't the Bite attack be included in a full attack? When NOT shifting, there is no natural bite attack from the race, but the feat should still apply.

If you are going the route of a shifter pouncer then Weretouched Master is a must. It gives two bonus shifter feats, animal linked abilities and a lycanthrope like alternate form based upon your trait. It is a much cheaper to get a werebear or weretiger like physical prowess. Also shifter savagery increases your threat range and it boosts your damage up two categories(4 with the capstone and totem avatar shoulder bind) while shifting and raging. I don't think I need to mention what that opens up.
I've given this some thought, and the 5th level ability (Bear, FTW!) is pretty incredible. Trying to see if it's worth missing out of 5 levels of Totemist.
 

Ankheg Breastplate, Behir Gorget, Brass Mane, Phase Cloak, Winter Mask, Worg Pelt all provide bite attacks in addition to Threefold Mask of the Chimera. Wouldn't the Bite attack be included in a full attack? When NOT shifting, there is no natural bite attack from the race, but the feat should still apply.


I've given this some thought, and the 5th level ability (Bear, FTW!) is pretty incredible. Trying to see if it's worth missing out of 5 levels of Totemist.
They all provide a bite but those before form around your face, so they overlap. It is the same rule with a spiked gauntlet and unarmed strike. It is another weapon but because they are in the same slot you use one or the other. Now, you can gain effects from both just not more attacks(Kuthrik claws or Bloodtalons+ Girallon Arms:lol:). The Chimera mask is unique in the it has three heads so it really doesn't occupy giving you two bites.
Yes, you get two bites, plus other natural attacks, and iteratives so long as they are unarmed strikes otherwise you might have to sacrifice natural attack. A dragonborn gives you more options namely a good tail attack that doesn't occupy a totem slot. However, you will have to see if the DM will wave away the wording though.
It is worth it for a Totem Rager as it can bridge lost essentia through its Totem Rage. This rage is solid for melee multi-attackers and shores up the lack of will save. Now, I will say that the PrC probably could of done better but a Shifter/Weretouched Master build definitely brings in the strengths of power and resilience on the Totem Rager vs. a regular Totemist. A pure Totemist will give more versatility and progresses faster for binding but lack of will save and lots of small attacks can be an issue. The rebind is nice but still takes a full-round action that provokes and also remember a Totemist's save DC for its effects are constitution based. The only other ability worth of note is Totem Embodiment but that is a capstone. As such if you are Shifter be a mad man bear.
 

They all provide a bite but those before form around your face, so they overlap. It is the same rule with a spiked gauntlet and unarmed strike. It is another weapon but because they are in the same slot you use one or the other. Now, you can gain effects from both just not more attacks(Kuthrik claws or Bloodtalons+ Girallon Arms:lol:). The Chimera mask is unique in the it has three heads so it really doesn't occupy giving you two bites.
Yes, you get two bites, plus other natural attacks, and iteratives so long as they are unarmed strikes otherwise you might have to sacrifice natural attack. A dragonborn gives you more options namely a good tail attack that doesn't occupy a totem slot. However, you will have to see if the DM will wave away the wording though.
It is worth it for a Totem Rager as it can bridge lost essentia through its Totem Rage. This rage is solid for melee multi-attackers and shores up the lack of will save. Now, I will say that the PrC probably could of done better but a Shifter/Weretouched Master build definitely brings in the strengths of power and resilience on the Totem Rager vs. a regular Totemist. A pure Totemist will give more versatility and progresses faster for binding but lack of will save and lots of small attacks can be an issue. The rebind is nice but still takes a full-round action that provokes and also remember a Totemist's save DC for its effects are constitution based. The only other ability worth of note is Totem Embodiment but that is a capstone. As such if you are Shifter be a mad man bear.
Emoplato, I thank you for all your input.

I'm confused though about this overlap thing. I'm expecting to only get 1 Bite, which is from a Soulmeld. The Shifter bite only occurs when shifting, which is once per day, and my OP question is does the Longtooth Elite feat apply to the soulmeld bite attack?

The "Spiked Gauntlet and Unarmed Strike" example makes sense if you have both. In this case, imagine Unarmed Strike wears off, and I was asking of monk special attacks still applied when he wielded a Spiked Gauntlet, if I could carry the analogy.
 
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I cant see any raw reason against it if it doesn't specify when shifting. I don't think they intended for you to get another bite attack.

Let us for a second compare the soul meld to the lycanthrope curse, as both are abilities.

If a lycanthrope (lets say werewolf) polymorphed into a shark, and bit someone, would the curse transfer?

I'd say yes as its part of your being, if you'd say yes, then talk to your DM about it, if not you may want to consider it too far from the initial rules.

(Note, polymorphing into a hydra for more bite attacks makes sense)
 
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Emoplato, I thank you for all your input.

I'm confused though about this overlap thing. I'm expecting to only get 1 Bite, which is from a Soulmeld. The Shifter bite only occurs when shifting, which is once per day, and my OP question is does the Longtooth Elite feat apply to the soulmeld bite attack?

The "Spiked Gauntlet and Unarmed Strike" example makes sense if you have both. In this case, imagine Unarmed Strike wears off, and I was asking of monk special attacks still applied when he wielded a Spiked Gauntlet, if I could carry the analogy.
Well at base your shifting is once a day but for every two shifter feats you gain you get an extra use. They also last one round longer per feat. So, as a Weretouched Master you automatically gain an extra use.
I would say it does as it says bite attacks not singular or derived from shifting. If biting is what you have in mind than the Worg Pelt hand bind is great as it is knock down for bites. You can take a Wolf totem barbarian substitution from the Unearthed Arcana so you can get Improved Trip free. Also, dread carapace is your best friend, but I would have to say more can be made from claws. If only they had a Hydra-themed soulmeld.;)
 
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