Longtooth Shifter Regen

[Kaledor]

We have a Longtooth Shifter player in our group.
She read the shifter power and had a different interpretation of it than the DM. 3 more of us read it and we had a split decision. So, the DM asked us to post to the good folks at EN to see what kind of majority can be reached.

The Longtooth Shifter Racial power:

Until the end of the encounter, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls. In addition, while you are bloodied, you gain regeneration 2...

One side read it as two completely separate clauses, that had no influence on each other. So: you get bloodied, you spend power, each turn you regen until you are no longer bloodied. Then you lose the regen (still get +2 dam), no matter what else happens the rest of the encounter.



The other side read the "In addition" to mean that for the rest of the encounter you'll get the +2dam AND for the rest of the encounter you'll get regen whenever you are bloodied. So: you get bloodied, you spend power, each turn you regen until you are no longer bloodied. The you lose regen (still get +2 dam), BUT if you become cloodied again in the same encounter, your regen kicks back in and will likewie last until you are no longer bloodied.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

it switches on and off depending on your health state

 

[Squizzle]

It very particularly says "while you are bloodied", not "until you are no longer bloodied". It reactivates any time you're bloodied.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It very particularly says "while you are bloodied", not "until you are no longer bloodied". It reactivates any time you're bloodied.

This. I have one in my campaign, too, and she's (obviously) happy with that take.

 

[Kaledor]

It very particularly says "while you are bloodied", not "until you are no longer bloodied". It reactivates any time you're bloodied.

That's the position I took (and the shifter's player), but I understand what the other side is saying. If you separate out the two sentences, and ONLY read the line, "In addition, while you are bloodied, you gain regeneration 2," it *could* imply that while you are currently bloodied, not everytime you are ever bloodied. I guess it like something similar to the Warforged power that gives you extra temporary hitpoints if your bloodied, but it's a one time occurance... not an ongoing effect that triggers with each bloodied state.

 

[KarinsDad]

If you separate out the two sentences, and ONLY read the line, "In addition, while you are bloodied, you gain regeneration 2," it *could* imply that while you are currently bloodied, not everytime you are ever bloodied.

It doesn't matter if you separate it out or not.

"while you are bloodied, you gain regeneration 2"

does not explicitly mean:

"until you are no longer bloodied, you gain regeneration 2".


The second sentences does not in any way give us a duration at all. It does not give us "one round", it does not give us "until you are no longer bloodied", it does not give us "until the end of the encounter". The only duration we have in the effect is the first sentence.

But, both "one round" and "until you are no longer bloodied" are not really reasonable durations, especially considering that the shifter might not get regeneration the next round if healed. The power is not so strong that super short durations should be the norm.

"until the end of the encounter", however, is a reasonable duration considering that it is only while bloodied.

So, a literal reading of the word "while" combined with the other portion of the effect lasting until the end of the encounter seems the most reasonable and I also think it is what is used at most tables (we use it for the shifter in our group as well).

 

[kugelkj]

It seems very powerful, initially i thought to ban this race... but when you really look at the rest of the racial abilities, the shifters are seriously lacking compared to other races...

I'll also add I have a fighter longtooth shifter in my game who uses a bloodfury weapon (encounter, minor action:treat as bloodied until end of next turn) to trigger his shifting ability at the start of combat and get the +2 damage for the whole encounter... its a little (ok maybe a lot) cheesy... but there isn't anything getting in the way of using it this way and he has to spend two minor actions to set it off... thoughts?

 

[CovertOps]

Encounter Healing
Minor Action Personal
Requirement: You must be bloodied.
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls. In addition, while you are bloodied, you gain regeneration 2.

Heal Each Turn: If you have regeneration and at least 1 hit point, you regain a specified number of hit points at the start of your turn. If your current hit point total is 0 or lower, you do not regain hit points through regeneration.

Limited by Maximum Hit Points: Like most forms of healing, regeneration can’t cause your current hit points to exceed your maximum hit points.

Not Cumulative: If you gain regeneration from more than one source, only the largest amount of regeneration applies.

In order to activate Longtooth Shifting you must already be bloodied. The "while bloodied" tells you when your regeneration will end....when you are no longer bloodied (also note that ALL regeneration ends if you are reduced to 0 or fewer HPs). If you did not have the "while bloodied" clause there then the regeneration would never end. The important part that was left out of the OP was the part about "Requirement: You must be bloodied".

The second sentences does not in any way give us a duration at all. It does not give us "one round", it does not give us "until you are no longer bloodied", it does not give us "until the end of the encounter". The only duration we have in the effect is the first sentence.

I disagree. "While bloodied" does give us "until you are no longer bloodied". It gives us a duration because in order to activate the power the PC must already be bloodied so "while bloodied" tells us how long the power continues in effect.

Edit: I want to amend. With the new ruling that "dying" means you are still "bloodied" then you do not "lose" your regeneration just because you fall below 0 HPs, however, you will require an outside healing source to get you above 0 HPs before you can start regenerating again with the stipulation that it still ends if you become no longer bloodied (above 1/2 HPs).

 

[KarinsDad]

I disagree. "While bloodied" does give us "until you are no longer bloodied". It gives us a duration because in order to activate the power the PC must already be bloodied so "while bloodied" tells us how long the power continues in effect.

You are interpreting "while you are bloodied" as "while you are still bloodied". You are assuming that since there is a requirement to be bloodied in the first place, that the power someone stops once no longer bloodied.

The language here is unclear and there is no explicit duration. There is only a specific "while" clause. "While" by itself does not indicate duration. It indicates a condition of when it can and cannot occur, but does not indicate when it completely stops occurring.

If it were explicit, we would not be having the discussion.


"While you are prone, you get a +2 bonus to Fort" says nothing about duration.

 

[holywhitetrash]

i take it to mean once activated anytime you are bloodied you gain regen 2
so if you have longtooth shifting active and you get healed above bloodied and then get bloodied again you would regain regeneration 2
and it would continue like this until the encounter eneded