Looking for a more narrative, less combat-centric alternative to D&D

[Magean]

If you like swords and sorcery, you might look at Swords of the Serpentine. It is based on the GUMSHOE engine, but the point spending system has been adjusted away from just getting informtation, and turned more towards doing awesome cool things.

The print version is not yet available, but if you preorder, you get the pre-layout pdf version of the rules immediately.

Savage Worlds does a good job of D&D and there an Eberron conversion book for it. I'm going to playing in a SW Eberron game starting this week and the feel is there but it gives you other options. Swords of the Serpentine would be awesome too, I love the game, but it would be more work on your end to convert stuff.

So today I spent a lot of time reading about GUMSHOE, and Swords of the Serpentine may be an interesting investment. Does the pre-release PDF contain an introductory scenario with pregen characters, or anything to quickly get going, learn the system and get the feeling without much learning and prepping on the GM's part?

 

[Fenris-77]

So today I spent a lot of time reading about GUMSHOE, and Swords of the Serpentine may be an interesting investment. Does the pre-release PDF contain an introductory scenario with pregen characters, or anything to quickly get going, learn the system and get the feeling without much learning and prepping on the GM's part?

The pre-release PDF does indeed have a scenario in it, and there is a pack of pre-gens the comes with, as well as a blank character sheet. Frankly, the pregens aren't really necessary. I have never, and I do mean never, had more fun making characters than I have with Swords. There's a thread over on RPG.net (doc link in post 276) that has another PDF with some really good pre-gen characters, including a couple of mine. The whole thread is worth browsing, it's a pretty wide ranging discussion of the system and it's parts, including a lot of ideas for hacks and the like. One of the game's writers is in there regularly too.

I absolutely love the game, and can't possibly recommend it highly enough.

 

[Tun Kai Poh]

How could I forget that there is an excellent example of play featuring Kevin Kulp running the game for Morrus and Peter???

 

[innerdude]

So I feel like I need to chime in on Savage Worlds.

For perspective, from 2012 to 2019, I ran three different Savage Worlds campaigns, and participated in two others run by other members of our group. It was the sole game system used by our group in that time. I'm not saying that I have unassailable knowledge of the system or anything, but I've seen just about every component of it at work at some point in that time.

Here's the thing about Savage Worlds --- it's not a "narrative" system. At least, it's not a narrative system in the same sort of category as you might consider Fate or Cortex+ / Cortex Prime. At it's heart, it's actually a fairly "traditional" sort of RPG. In play it feels very much like my early days playing the D&D Rules Cyclopedia / Red+Blue Box / BECMI sets---only the rules are 4x more flexible, elegant, and cohesive, with more player character options than early D&D, without veering into the extreme character optimization of D&D 3.

The effect of the elegance is that it leads to a much more open, active, "improvisational" style than you'd see in any version of D&D since the year 2000. In fact, that's probably the best way of describing the feel; it's an "action improv" focused game, not a "narrative" focused game.

If you're looking for a D&D-style game, only with faster combats, a system that not only supports but enhances player action improvisation, a flatter power curve, and a focus on human-level (or slightly larger than human) combat, it's a beautiful, beautiful system for achieving that.

Just don't go into it thinking it's going to evolve into a high-brow character drama. It's still combat + action focused, it's just that it's so elegant and flexible that it allows for low- to zero-prep improvisation.

It's also not going to give your players the sense of being world-bending superheroes, like D&D does once you hit level 12+. Characters will definitely be larger than life, and clearly among the "best of the best" of their in-game world, but they're never going to feel invincible, and the baseline magic system at its most powerful would only reach what a level 8 or level 9 wizard in D&D is capable of.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Going in the other direction, I did once use Runequest to run a very successful set of Eberron games - combat is more crunchy than D&D as you have attacks and parries, and armour defending against damage, but it works very well for a gritty game with pervasive low level magic. You have to do a lot more work if you want to support the flashier magic and cleric spells Though, so I’m not convinced it would be a great option for you, but it’s out there!

 

[Bluenose]

A little late to the thread, but Modiphius' Conan 2d20 might suit what you're looking for. One of my group's trial games was exactly the sort of heist Conan is sometimes involved with, except it went off without combat and was still pretty satisfying. There is a free quickstart available and an app with a pretty complete set of character generation rules to create PCs with if you want to take a look. Non-combat tasks are handled well, in my opinion.

 

[Sadras]

@Magean

I recommend 5e and you do not have to change much or learn another system

Stream-Lining Combat (by limiting endless Hit Points)
cap Hit Dice based on size
Small/Medium - 6 Hit Dice
Large - 10 Hit Dice
Huge - 20 Hit Dice
Gargantuan - 20+ Hit Dice

• Perhaps have higher level spells require more than 1 caster.
• Cap Levels at a certain point, grow laterally intead of horizonatly like the D&D E6 system
• Begin with 25 ability points to allocate instead of 27
• Employ the many gritty optional rules within the DMG (Sanity, Healer Kit Dependency, Long Resting Rules, Lingering Injuries)

Exploration/Roleplay emphasis
Introduce a Skill Challenges system (similar to 4e), Use NPC Reactions, Fail Foward, Degrees of Success

 

[Fenris-77]

A little late to the thread, but Modiphius' Conan 2d20 might suit what you're looking for. One of my group's trial games was exactly the sort of heist Conan is sometimes involved with, except it went off without combat and was still pretty satisfying. There is a free quickstart available and an app with a pretty complete set of character generation rules to create PCs with if you want to take a look. Non-combat tasks are handled well, in my opinion.

If you want the 2d20 engine, Dishonored might be a better pick than Conan. It's a solid system though, for sure.

 

[Umbran]

Frankly, the pregens aren't really necessary.

I think they are needed, at least from the point of view of understanding the approach to equipment. Without pregens, you probably don't realize what that's actually supposed to do for you.

 

[Fenris-77]

I think they are needed, at least from the point of view of understanding the approach to equipment. Without pregens, you probably don't realize what that's actually supposed to do for you.

That's a good point. I really just meant that you'll be so busy making cool characters of your own that you won't need the pregens. The gear is one of my favorite parts of the process, along with What's best in life... and a place where the system really shines IMO. It's a great idea.