D&D 5E Looking for inspiration for D&D data projects

[FrogReaver]

That might be interesting. To really examine it's efficacy you'd want to include:

1. Base damage (that is, how much you would do without GWM)
2. Attack bonus
3. Disadvantage, Normal, Advantage, and Trivantage
4. Target AC

And Tradeoff for taking GWM instead of stat bump or PAM?

 

[FrogReaver]

The issue isn't (just) that bell curves are too complicated, the issue is that looking at the curve (which isn't even bell-shaped if we're talking about advantage/disadvantage) is irrelevant if you are just going to compare to a threshold. All that matters is the probability of hitting the threshold; and adding a modifier or using a non-uniform distribution of rolls both modify that probability. Focusing on the means of adjustment when the ends are the same is sort of like saying that rolling a d6 and checking for 4 or higher is an unacceptable substitute for flipping a coin. Yes the physical process is different, but the properties that matter are the same.

Agreed. Except the threshold you are typically comparing to isn't constant itself (and i'm sure you know that so don't take that as a knock at your mathematical aptitude). So I get the usefulness is reiterating that advantage doesn't provide an actual +X benefit (in the general case) because it's actual benefit in +X terms varies quite a bit depending on the constant you need to roll greater than or equal to in order to obtain success.

That said since bonuses in D&D are typically +X then being able to quickly estimate the value of advantage in terms of a +X is incredibly useful. In fact, in terms of playing the game it's probably more useful information than fully understanding advantage inside and out. Which is why I can't fathom why certain posters are taking an extreme position against such a practice.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yea, but this isn't a math question, really; it's a question of what's the best way to communicate a mathematical idea to those who don't have the disposition to work it out themselves. Precision has no place in coining a useful aphorism that 90% of the gaming population understands. Bell curves aren't intuitive to most, telling people that "it's about a +4, as long as you're not in everything hits or everything misses territory" has worked well for me in the past when talking to bright but not mathematically strong players.

IMO, it's not even as much about communicating the idea as giving them a framework to quickly compare advantage with traditional +X bonuses.

For example, if asked - is advantage better than +2 accuracy? I might say advantage is close to +4 bonus to hit. Then the person has a frame of reference to compare those two benefits.

 

[TwoSix]

IMO, it's not even as much about communicating the idea as giving them a framework to quickly compare advantage with traditional +X bonuses.

For example, if asked - is advantage better than +2 accuracy? I might say advantage is close to +4 bonus to hit. Then the person has a frame of reference to compare those two benefits.

Well, I'd argue that framework is what's trying to be communicated, but yea, pretty much.

 

[FrogReaver]

I had fun creating my Rogue Elven Accuracy data visualization, and want another cool project. Any ideas?

I can either work with generating data from the rules, or if you know of interesting data sets (I really wish D&DB had an API for extracting usage data) I can work with that.

I think it would be interesting to see some graphs charting weapon damage distributions after X attacks.

Maybe the X axis is damage and Y axis is Probability of doing that damage. Allow the user to select X. Give some toggles for what weapon damage sizes you are looking at.

If you wanted to make it really fancy then include criticals and an advantage toggle and a great weapon fighter and GWM toggle

I would be interested in seeing that.

EDIT: An accuracy parameter would be essential for this.

 

[FrogReaver]

Other ideas:

I had fun creating my Rogue Elven Accuracy data visualization, and want another cool project. Any ideas?

I can either work with generating data from the rules, or if you know of interesting data sets (I really wish D&DB had an API for extracting usage data) I can work with that.

In terms of Data I'm not aware of anyplace to get their data. However, you could create a survey and place it online to get your own data. I'm sure many at EnWorld would volunteer to take the survery.

If you got 30 people to take such a survey I think you would have plenty to work with. If you kept it online for a while other sites might even pick up on it.

I would love to see the data from a survey for rating each class and subclass in along a few different parameters.
How powerful is the class
How well do the class mechanics match the class flavor
How fun is the class to play (special value for having not played the class)
Compared with other class how much do you want to play this class in the future

 

[Esker]

Agreed. Except the threshold you are typically comparing to isn't constant itself (and i'm sure you know that so don't take that as a knock at your mathematical aptitude). So I get the usefulness is reiterating that advantage doesn't provide an actual +X benefit (in the general case) because it's actual benefit in +X terms varies quite a bit depending on the constant you need to roll greater than or equal to in order to obtain success.

Yeah, that was the initial point I made in response to Fenris saying he had thought about advantage/disadvantage as being +/- 5. But that isn't Ovinomancer's complaint; his complaint seems to be that likening (dis)advantage to a modifier even at a fixed DC is heresy ("Advantage/disadvantage is never actually like +/-5 at any point on the scale") b/c he's eternally hung up on the probability distribution curve being the One True Way to measure similarity between two random processes.

That said since bonuses in D&D are typically +X then being able to quickly estimate the value of advantage in terms of a +X is incredibly useful. In fact, in terms of playing the game it's probably more useful information than fully understanding advantage inside and out. Which is why I can't fathom why certain posters are taking an extreme position against such a practice.

Yup.

 

[Fenris-77]

I can work with the notion that Advantage/Disadvantage is +5/-5, or maybe +4/-4, except when it's neither. For me, it's about getting an easy handle on the numbers that's close enough that I can do some rough balancing on the back of napkins while I'm hacking away. I am quite happy to leave the heavy lifting to you fine fellows.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I can work with the notion that Advantage/Disadvantage is +5/-5, or maybe +4/-4, except when it's neither. For me, it's about getting an easy handle on the numbers that's close enough that I can do some rough balancing on the back of napkins while I'm hacking away. I am quite happy to leave the heavy lifting to you fine fellows.

"+/-5 five when the roll you need (not the DC) is somewhere around 10. Dropping off to almost zero as you get closer to 1 or 20."

 

[Fenris-77]

"+/-5 five when the roll you need (not the DC) is somewhere around 10. Dropping off to almost zero as you get closer to 1 or 20."

See, that's a bloody useful bit of info. So it scales by about 2:1 on the d20 as you approach the high/low ends. I can work with that. Thanks.