Looking for tips from Frank and other powerbuilders--wood elf

I'm thinking of going with the Shadow Dancer build below. Hide In Plain Sight is brutal for a rogue, especially with Spring Attack and Expert Tactician. You spring in, hide in plain sight, get your Expert Tactician sneak attack, make your regular attack, then spring away (hiding in plain sight again, this time at -20 penalty because you attacked.

Coool. Plus, the shadow can be used to flank. Of it can just hang out in the ground and sap strength.

Comments? What's everyone's opinion of the shadow dancer prc?

I'm also considering dropping the rogue levels completely, and going Monk 1 (Combat Reflexes as 1st level Monk feat), Ftr 1 (for feat), Ranger 5, Horizon Walker 1 (for Forest Terrain mastery/+4 Hide), and then shadow dancer. Are the saves, unarmed damage, and Improved Unarmed Strike feat (from monk) as well as wolf companion, ranger spell, extra favored enemy, and Endurance feat (from ranger) worth sacrificing the Rogue's evasion (which I'll pick up with Shadow Dancer) and 2d6 sneak attack damage?

-z, getting obsessed.

Zaruthustran said:
Rog 3 (for sneak attack) Ftr 2 (for feats) Rng 3 (for skills, Track, feat). Pick up to 5 levels of ranger for companion and spells, then go Shadow Dancer.

Character level feats:
1. Combat Reflexes
3. Dodge
6. Expert Tactician (for extra sneak attacks)
(pick up Power Attack at 9, then Cleave at 12)

Fighter feats:
1. Mobility
2. Spring Attack

Ranger feat:
1. Rapid Shot

-z
 
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Zaruthustran - I'm afraid you don't have an email address available, and I can't use Private Messaging, otherwise I would have sent this privately.

But I'd recommend modifying your sig to say "Loose is an adjective", rather than an adverb.

It can be used as an adverb ("Hang loose", for example)... but that's uncommon ("loosely" is the more natural adverb), and the way you describe it suggests it's likely the adjective you mean.

Normally, I wouldn't consider it a big deal... but it's always a good idea to be as accurate as possible when you're educating :)

-Hyp.
 
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I'm thinking of going with the Shadow Dancer build below. Hide In Plain Sight is brutal for a rogue, especially with Spring Attack and Expert Tactician.

Hide in Plain Sight doesn't do anything. If you can make the -20 penalty to hide after your attack, you can make the Hide check at -20 to stay hidden during your attack. Yes, the example really is still -20 to hide while running or charging. All charges include an attack, so every time you attack someone the Hide penalty is at most -20. If you can't make that roll, HiPS does nothing, and if you can make that roll you were never spotted in the first place and don't need HiPS. It's a cool flavor ability, but it doesn't actually have any game effect - so don't bother taking a class level to get it unless it comes with a free sneak attack die or something.

What about prestige classes? I was thinking Horizon Walker might be fun. Having Darkvision would really help, since right now my character has to have a light source in dark areas--killing any chance for using the Hide skill. Plus the damage bonuses are useful. Any other prestige class ideas? I don't think he can qualify for much.

If Knockdown isn't available, it sounds like you don't have access to Sword and Fist - and by extension to other Splat Books. If indeed you can't use the PrCs from the class books - I don't think that there's much that you can qualify for by the simple expedient of not many classes being available. In the DMG, the only PrC which are worth a crap for a non-spellcaster are the Horizon Walker and the Blackguard. Since I don't think you plan on being hideously evil, that pretty much leaves the Horizon Walker all alone.

The Horizon Walker is pretty decent. The Planar Masteries specifically say that you don't need to be on the right kind of plane to use them - and the ability to D-Door at will is very nice when you can finally get it (which will be at like level 11 or 12). Further, the immunity to Blasphemy from Aligned Mastery is also extremely good (BTW, I wouldn't wipe myself with Cold resistance 20 at 14th level - so you won't complete this class).

Could you elaborate about image spells being brutal?

OK: the rules say that you can have more than one creature, and more than one object, and have them do whatever you want. The creatures who are perceiving it do not get a saving throw until they touch one of the images or search an area with an image in it (which has a range of 10 feet and is a standard action).

Meanwhile, creatures presented with incontrovertable proof automatically see through it.

So you can create a hedge that obscures all vision around the party which has giant tentacles on the inside which pop harmlessly through the eyes of your friends - revealing it to be false and allowing your compatriots to fire out without suffering concealment. Essentially a 1st level spell can make your whole party win an archery duel because your enemies are "firing blind" and your party gets +2 to-hit and ignores dex bonuses when firing.

Or you can "supplement" your party with about 30 "friends", and the enemies won't get a save until they start wasting attacks on figments.

Images are completely versatile and about as powerful as your creativity.

My character has a Quiver of Ehlonna so storing the reach weapon isn't a problem. But why wouldn't you need quickdraw? I understand that you can draw as part of a move, but I don't want to have to drop my bow or longspear on the ground.

Unfortunately, unless we abuse the Sleight of Hand rules, you are going to need to drop the bow anyway. Quickdraw does not say that it speeds up your ability to put your bow away, and thus it doesn't. That's not a huge problem, as you usually won't be switching to a bow unless you are not threatened, and picking up an item is still a move action. So dropping your bow is usually not a big deal.

The other option is Rog 3 Ftr 2 Bar 2 Rng 1, I guess. This gives less stealth, but rage, speed (useful for spring attack), and uncanny dodge. In both cases I'd start with Rogue for the skills.

Character level feats:
1. Combat Reflexes
3. Dodge
6. Expert Tactician (for extra sneak attacks)
(pick up Power Attack at 9, then Cleave at 12)

Fighter feats:
1. Mobility
2. Spring Attack

Ranger feat:
1. Rapid Shot

I'm not quite getting this. With only one level of Ranger you aren't getting the Ranger feat. You are ultimately going to want both the Endurance and the Rapid Shot which come from levels two and three. That can wait, but it does mean that you won't be doing Horizon Walker until level 11.

-Frank
 


Darklone Quote
What kind of action is Hide in Plain Sight? Was it a part of a move action? I thought it was a standard action.

Most SU are standard actions like shadow jump but in this case I would think it would depend on what exactly you are doing? That would go under the tough DM call IMO
 

Darklone said:
What kind of action is Hide in Plain Sight? Was it a part of a move action? I thought it was a standard action.
Hide in Plain Sight appears to be intended to function as a continuous ability, as it does not have a duration. Thus, using it is "not an action" - it is part of making a Hide check.

Not that it matters of course, because as previously noted the Hide Check you make to vanish while being observed is in fact exactly the same as the Hide Check you would have just made to avoid being seen in the first place.

-Frank
 

FrankTrollman said:
Hide in Plain Sight appears to be intended to function as a continuous ability, as it does not have a duration. Thus, using it is "not an action" - it is part of making a Hide check.

Not that it matters of course, because as previously noted the Hide Check you make to vanish while being observed is in fact exactly the same as the Hide Check you would have just made to avoid being seen in the first place.

-Frank
Theres a big advantage that HiPS gives you - the ability to hide in the open with nothing but a shadow nearby for concealment. ie - outdoors during the day, within the radius of a light source etc.
 

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