"Looks like we're going to win this battle . . . in about 90 minutes from now."

[Raven Crowking]

A poster mentioned wandering monsters and an influential article about not using them, stating that this was a bad idea. I think that's a great point.

Thank you.


RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Doesn't the GSL kind of frown in "redefining" things? Creating a dream game might require that.

It forbids it absolutely.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Two points. [etc.]

Great post.

 

[ryryguy]

quick and dirty fix

Another quick and dirty fix I thought of.

If the DM judges that the encounter has entered "boring extended mop-up territory", he can just give all the remaining monsters "Vulnerable 10 all" property. (Substitute 10 for a higher or lower value depending on level, whether you're dealing with elite brutes, etc.)

The battle should end a lot faster!

 

[ryryguy]

Thank you.


RC

PS - Sorry not to name/quote you directly, it was late, I was tired and sick of crawling back through long threads...

 

[Raven Crowking]

PS - Sorry not to name/quote you directly, it was late, I was tired and sick of crawling back through long threads...

I wasn't being snarky; I was glad someone valued my opinion.

RC

 

[Vayden]

I've noticed that a lot of it comes down to playstyle and encounter design, whether your fights get "boring" or not. I'm in three weekly games right now - in one of them, I'm playing a warlord in my friend's homebrew game - in the other 2, I'm DMing KotS for 2 completely different groups.

For the homebrew game we're in, the first session was very ugly due to the DM being in a 3.5 mindset in two ways - 1) dungeon rooms and halls were all too cramped to maneuver in 2) he was used to the inadequacies of the old CR system and made all the encounters a bit too tough. Once we got that learning experience under our belts though, it's been a blast since then, with every fight being gripping, even once both sides were down to at-wills, due to the good tactical use of at-wills on all sides and him having a good grasp now on encounter building. At one point, my warlord was completely out of healing surges (I hate wights) while the rest of the party still had most of their's - we trucked on through the rest of the dungeon anyway - I hung back and chucked javelins, then darted in to fire off an encounter power when I thought I could get away with it.

For the 1st group I'm running through KotS, there are only 3 players and I'm not scaling the adventure back much - they're on the edge of their seats and scrambling to stay alive in most fights. The only real slow-down moment I've seen so far in that one was against the ooze when we had a 3-5 round stretch were everyone's dice went cold (mine included) and neither side could land a hit. But soon enough the rolls changed and it picked up again.

This leads me back to my original point about play-style, because my final group has run into a fair number of fights that definitely seem boring in comparison to the first 2 groups. Tactically, the final group isn't as good as the first two (with the exception of one player), and they're generally much more rigid. They tend to bottleneck a hallway or a section of cavern and then just stand there and trade body blows with the monsters. I'm working on trying to gradually teach them to move and flow, but we still end up with slog-fests where it's just everyone going around initiative and rolling to hit - they use their standard action and nothing else. It's also interesting to see the difference on a round where you miss - in the first two groups, if someone misses, it's "shoot, I missed - next guy up!". In slogfest group, especially if one of our players is present, it's "oh man, I missed again - this character sucks, etc etc etc".

It's just amazing running the exact same room from KotS Friday night and Saturday afternoon and watching the difference. In one game, I completely see the OP's point - in the other, I can't imagine how the OP ended up with that situation.

 

[Hussar]

Potions and wands, for one.

For two, you avoid getting hurt, even if that means making a strategic retreat or even avoid a conflict you think would be a close one.

For three, its almost unheard of for the guys running the divine casters to use all of their spells until it actually is time to rest. Last night's session in RttToEE was a perfect example- our party of tenth level PCs had several members down to 2 or 3 HP. We've quaffed enough potions to get those PCs (including at least one fighter) up to about 25HP each. Our casters had only a few, mostly 1st & 2nd level spells left (except the mage, who still has 3 Lightning Bolts).

The last encounter of that latest session was the 6th in the party's day (24 hour period).

Our casters do use their spells...but only when they have to. The mage softens up the foes with a spell or 2 then holds and holds and holds while the warriors do the dirty work...unless a foe needs additional zapping, that is.

Our spellcasters- clerics included- do not determine when the party rests by blowing all of their spells. Instead, "camp time" is determined by when everyone else is blown, and THEN the final spells of the day get cast.

Six encounters? How the heck are you not killing PC's?

Look, on average a creature can do 10xCR per round as a max. Most PC's don't have that kind of hit points. 25 hit points at that level going into a fight is just begging to be killed. Your experience is just so alien to mine. Remember, I was killing 1 PC every three sessions and that's LETTING them rest all the time.

How are you not whacking PC's?

 

[Old Gumphrey]

How are you not whacking PC's?

This is some tasty fudge.

 

[Grazzt]

I noticed that around here, people say that a lot, but I've never seen that in 30 years of D&D playing. If the spellcasters ran out of spells, they'd better get their best weapon out, look lively and stay out of the fighters' way.

And vice versa.

Pretty much unless the party was running near empty, it wasn't time for rest...not that the DM would let you, for that matter.

Yep. Same here. Been playing since 1981, and if the spellcasters ran out of spells, they pulled out their weapons. Only time the party rested was, as you said, when they were near empty for everyone. (We continued this style of play even under the 3.x rules as well.)