"Looks like we're going to win this battle . . . in about 90 minutes from now."

[Fenes]

Yes, that's what I said.

Ah, but the solution to that is to ban spells like knock. That way, magic can still be the first resort.​

After removing knock magic is not the first resort anymore for opening doors.

 

[hong]

After removing knock magic is not the first resort anymore for opening doors.

To be precise, magic is the first resort for those situations where magic is available.

Is this clear?

 

[Fenes]

To be precise, magic is the first resort for those situations where magic is available.

Is this clear?

Of course. But I am not so sure this is true. Theoretically, you can use magic to bash open a door, so it's available. But since that has certain drawbacks even if the door can be smashed open, it's not the first resort despite being available.

 

[hong]

Of course. But I am not so sure this is true. Theoretically, you can use magic to bash open a door, so it's available. But since that has certain drawbacks even if the door can be smashed open, it's not the first resort despite being available.

It is certainly a possible resort in those situations where bashing in a door is acceptable. Just as is taking an axe to it, possible whinging from the rogue notwithstanding. Your point is...?

 

[Fenes]

It was an answer to this:

To be precise, magic is the first resort for those situations where magic is available.

Is this clear?

To show that even when magic is available, it may not be the first resort.

 

[hong]

To show that even when magic is available, it may not be the first resort.

Well, I suppose that if you wanted to be absolutely technically precise to the micrometer scale, you could say that while a wizard could fireball a baron the party is trying to hobnob, he might not necessarily want to, and so by the standards of absolutely technically precise measurements to the micrometer scale, it would indeed be not strictly correct in the most objective sense of the term that magic would be the first resort.

If one wanted to be absolutely technically precise to the micrometer scale, anyway.

 

[wedgeski]

It's like the Wimbledon final all over again. Deuce!

 

[Fenes]

Well, I suppose that if you wanted to be absolutely technically precise to the micrometer scale, you could say that while a wizard could fireball a baron the party is trying to hobnob, he might not necessarily want to, and so by the standards of absolutely technically precise measurements to the micrometer scale, it would indeed be not strictly correct in the most objective sense of the term that magic would be the first resort.

If one wanted to be absolutely technically precise to the micrometer scale, anyway.

Oh, such precision is only needed when dealing with absolute statements presented as facts.

But in this case, it's not so much micrometer precision, but pointing out that magic is available in a great many situations.

Finding uses for magic in a given situation, especially trying to find more and unconventional uses for spells can be a lot of fun. It can also be a lot of fun finding such unconventional uses for skills, tools, and other class abilities. This is helped by magic not having the perfect solution for just about every task anymore.

So, it's not that magic is not available anymore - it simply is just one means among many for dealing with a situation. In some situations, it may be the best means, but in other it may be the worst.

Although I am curious to know in which situations you consider magic to be the first resort.

 

[hong]

Oh, such precision is only needed when dealing with absolute statements presented as facts.

But in this case, it's not so much micrometer precision, but pointing out that magic is available in a great many situations.

Which is why you ban knock.

Finding uses for magic in a given situation, especially trying to find more and unconventional uses for spells can be a lot of fun. It can also be a lot of fun finding such unconventional uses for skills, tools, and other class abilities. This is helped by magic not having the perfect solution for just about every task anymore.

Sounds boring.

So, it's not that magic is not available anymore - it simply is just one means among many for dealing with a situation. In some situations, it may be the best means, but in other it may be the worst.

Although I am curious to know in which situations you consider magic to be the first resort.

All those situations involving killing monsters and taking their stuff, of course.

 

[Fenes]

Which is why you ban knock.

I mean with knock banned, magic is still available. A combination of silence with a barbarian's axe, for example, might serve very well.

Sounds boring.

Not to everyone. I'd dare say that finding creative uses for your character's abilities is fun for a lot of people, and keeps a game fresh and exciting.

All those situations involving killing monsters and taking their stuff, of course.

So, you see no situation where magic is not the best way to kill a monster and take its stuff?