"Looks like we're going to win this battle . . . in about 90 minutes from now."

[AllisterH]

That's if one wants magic to be the first resort at all. And if one does, why would one play a non-spellcaster?

I don't mind magic being the solution when a mundane answer is possible. I just don't like it when magic is the best given the opportunity cost.

In 1e/2e, using your knock spell to bypass a door was a significant opportunity cost even when you were 15th level. For a 15th level mage in 3E though? Hell, even for a 7th level mage, knock no longer is a significant opportunity cost.

That's what I don't like.

 

[hong]

That's if one wants magic to be the first resort at all.

This is where the

Sounds boring.​

bit comes in.

And if one does, why would one play a non-spellcaster?

This is where the

the solution to that is to ban spells like knock.​

bit comes in.

 

[Fenes]

This is where the

Sounds boring.​

bit comes in.



This is where the

the solution to that is to ban spells like knock.​

bit comes in.

This where the "not everyone thinks like hong" bit comes in. If you have no trouble roleplaying a character living in a fantasy world with a very different outlook on life, you should not have any trouble understanding that not everyone considers a game where magic is not the first resort boring.

 

[hong]

This where the "not everyone thinks like hong" bit comes in. If you have no trouble roleplaying a character living in a fantasy world with a very different outlook on life, you should not have any trouble understanding that not everyone considers a game where magic is not the first resort boring.

And these people are important because...?

 

[Fenes]

And these people are important because...?

They are as important as you are. And if we were following your reasoning, if enough of them think something, it becomes true. That makes them pretty important for you I'd say.

 

[hong]

They are as important as you are. And if we were following your reasoning, if enough of them think something, it becomes true. That makes them pretty important for you I'd say.

Of course. However, plenty of ppl want to use magic as the first resort. For evidence of this, just see WoW.

 

[Fenes]

Of course. However, plenty of ppl want to use magic as the first resort. For evidence of this, just see WoW.

Of course. And while I do not share their taste, I do not think they are wrong in that.

Although there are also plenty of people do not want to use magic as a first resort - see D&D 4E as evidence.

 

[hong]

Of course. And while I do not share their taste, I do not think they are wrong in that.

Although there are also plenty of people do not want to use magic as a first resort - see D&D 4E as evidence.

Oh, no, no. D&D 4E is evidence that plenty of ppl want to use magic as a first resort. That's why they banned knock.

 

[Fenes]

Oh, no, no. D&D 4E is evidence that plenty of ppl want to use magic as a first resort. That's why they banned knock.

I would say D&D 4E is not evidence that plenty of people wanted to use magic as a first resort, but that plenty of people felt forced to use it since it was superiour. Hence they banned knock so it wasn't superiour anymore for opening doors.

 

[hong]

I would say D&D 4E is not evidence that plenty of people wanted to use magic as a first resort, but that plenty of people felt forced to use it since it was superiour. Hence they banned knock so it wasn't superiour anymore for opening doors.

Yes, that's what I said.

Ah, but the solution to that is to ban spells like knock. That way, magic can still be the first resort.​