Loremaster Article: To GSL or not to GSL?

[Frylock]

Your Counter-productive Post

dmccoy1693,

I don't know why your're so hostile towards anyone with an opposing view, but when you react emotionally, you're bound to make mistakes. Here are two examples. First, you speak as if I should have known that "not nice" doesn't actually mean "not nice," but instead means "not safe." If you don't mean what you write, then any resulting confusion is on you, not me.

Second, let me return the favor and point you to some articles:

Protection from Chaos, Parts I and II: Punishment for Copyright Infringement (The cost of losing a copyright infringement lawsuit.)
Copyright for Gamers, Part III: Well, actually, this is Trademark for Gamers. (A case study on the Hasbro suit against Clue Computing, Inc., and the lessons that can be learned from it.)
Protection from Chaos, Part IV: Fair Use (Discussing, among other things, the cost of winning a copyright infringement lawsuit.)

These are the first articles in my series, and they all recognize the same basic argument you're now making. I don't see how you can accuse me of being naive simply because I don't address a point that's off topic.

Your post is counter-productive. When you behave this way, it completely overshadows any legitimate contribution you might otherwise make.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I'm not sure why I'm getting arguments from an opposing side. All of this line of discussion started when I said I was not interested in publishing 4E. Yes the license is 1 reason, but it is not the only reason. To restate them (again for the 4th or 5th time):

1. I don't like the license.

2. Less customers are interested in 3rd party products.

3. Even fewer customers are interested in my specific products.

4. Other indications that I am not at liberty to say publicly tell me my revenue will go down.

5. The company who's license I choose to go with over 4E is responsive and values my products enough to help promote them.

6. Its not the game I play. I don't like the system. (I was in a campaign and the system just was not to my tastes.)

There's more, but I think these are enough. Even if you remove the license issue, there are 5 perfectly good reasons why I am not interested in 4E. And without those reasons, there's still one more: Its my company and I can do with it what I want (within the law of course). If I do not choose to work on 4E (even if there is no reason whatsoever), its my decision. I am confounded why others are trying to convince me that one aspect of my reasons is not enough and otherwise is ok. All of the above need to be changed before I will consider going 4E.

I'm not interested in going 4E. Yes the license is 1 reason, but it is not the only reason. But somehow the license became the reason that is getting focused on. That is what I do not understand. Why this one reason? What about all the others?

EDIT: Frylock: Fair enough. I didn't realize that those points were raised elsewhere. My bad.

 

[Fifth Element]

I'm not interested in going 4E. Yes the license is 1 reason, but it is not the only reason. But somehow the license became the reason that is getting focused on. That is what I do not understand. Why this one reason? What about all the others?

That's the only thing being discussed because, well, that's the topic of discussion. Many of your other reasons are personal preferences and are thusly inarguable.

It's not an argument against your position as a whole, just a clarification on a point you made.

 

[Frylock]

You're getting opposing arguments because you're starting them. Your business decisions are your's to make as you see fit, and I'm neither qualified nor informed enough to make them for you. As I've stated several times, the article (which is the subject of this thread) is not designed to make a business decision for anyone. Any mention of your business decisions is irrelevant. What's relevant is that the option to operate outside the GSL is available. That's it. That's all on which I'm qualified to comment (that and the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which obviously is irrelevant here). If I start talking about other things, it's just an anonymous person on the Internet taking his best guess with the limited information he has.

As for "your bad," I can't expect you to read every article anyone's ever written. The fact that they exist wasn't the reason I linked to them. I linked to them to show that I'm fully aware of, and in fact agree with, your concerns about the costs of litigation.

I hope your decision works out for you. The more gaming material we have, the more the community as a whole benefits.

 

[S'mon]

In short, we cannot afford a law suit, whether the suing company has a legal leg to stand on or not. While the blogger is right legally speaking, he appears to be rather naive on the real word financial impact of law suits from a large company to a few person operation and the history of why the open licenses of today are around.

This is a point I always try to make to my students. There is a huge difference between "This could get us sued" and "This is breaking the law". Lots of things are perfectly legal but could still get you sued by a nasty corporation.

Eg TV game show formats are not protectable under UK copyright law, but I was just reading an interview with Endemol (Big Brotherr et al)'s head of IP enforcement, boasting about how they would crush anyone imitating their shows. If it ever came to court Endemol would probably lose and even have to pay the winner's costs under UK law, but few small companies can afford to take it that far. In the US the plaintiff rarely has to pay the defendant's costs even if they lose, making frivolous lawsuits even more effective.

 

[Matt James]

As long as you stay away from their IP, you should have just as many problems as Goodman Games and Open Design/Kobold Quarterly has had.

 

[S'mon]

Jon, can you explain why companies such as Goodman Games and Open Design (Kobold Quarterly) have not been sued by WotC? They chose not to adopt the GSL, and have been publishing 4e content since it came out.

They know what they're doing. In particular they were careful not to use any WotC registered Trade Marks, which is far more likely to incite a lawsuit due to the risk of losing a TM if you don't actively police it. AFAICR they did use the OGL, so they could reference SRD monsters like the otyugh in DCC Sellswords of Punjar we met a couple weeks back.

 

[Matt James]

I'm talking about the GSL for 4e, not OGL. I'm looking at my copies right now, and the GSL was not adopted.

 

[Bacris]

As a publisher who dabbled in publishing in 4E by using the OGL instead of the GSL, I can tell you that going outside of the GSL made me hesitant. Additionally, since I don't play 4E, my expertise into the game was virtually non-existant, so I had to take other people's words for the balance level of the content, something I don't like to do.

I will say that I agree with dmccoy1693 about the "not nice." Whether or not it's legal, WotC put out the GSL specifically for 4E. While it is perfectly legal to publish under another license, or simply via copyright law, it's not "nice" compared to the expectation of the system developer. During the day of 3.5, I was on fairly good terms with a few of the folks over at WotC... sidestepping the license they put out for publishers because I could take another legal course just didn't sit well with me. That, along with the other reasons I mentioned above, are a large part of why Dreamscarred Press currently does not produce material for 4E (although they are not the only reasons).

Sure, we CAN publish outside the GSL, but it just doesn't feel RIGHT to do so. In dmccoy1693's words - it feels like I'm not playing nice with WotC by doing that.

You may feel differently, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I get where he's coming from.

 

[S'mon]

I'm talking about the GSL for 4e, not OGL. I'm looking at my copies right now, and the GSL was not adopted.

You can use the OGL to access material from the d20 SRD, and still use 4e rules mechanics. It helps to be a copyright lawyer though, like Kenzer's boss.