D&D 5E Losing HP as you level up

Sacrosanct

Legend
To Horwath's point earlier, is this really an issue? Is it even worth the energy to argue over? How many PCs have a -2 to HP per level? Again, to his/her point, you probably shouldn't be an adventurer lol. But anyway, if this is a scenario that never actually happens, I just think there are probably better things to worry over. YMMV
 

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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
So apparently now the "official" rule is that if you have a negative Constitution modifier and roll for HP at level up, your maximum HP might actually decrease.

While this might make for an occasional interesting story, it is likely the result of an oversight when writing the rules, and in fact Mearls (who may not always remember the RAW, but clearly knows the RAI) have previously always said there is a minimum of +1 HP when levelling up.

Not that this will have any real implications on anyone's game, considering that few players ever play a low-Con PC, and if they do they will probably now ask the DM for permission to gain average HP at level-up instead of rolling.

Easy solution. Don't pick a con modnlow enough to reliably kill you :)
 


CapnZapp

Legend
Re: rolling, seems you can't win. If the average from rolling was better than taking the standard, then CapnZapp would be making a post how you're in idiot for taking the standard instead of rolling. So it's a no win with some people.

Here's the reality of it though. Just because you (general you) might never want to roll, doesn't mean a lot of people don't like to and want take that risk. It's all about risk vs reward, and like everything else that is chance, people decide if the risk is worth it. You have a MUCH greater chance of losing in gambling, and yet casinos are pretty popular and full all the time. Taking a risk always grants the opportunity of being better than the safe bet, but also on average is less. That's how it works. That's why a lot of people like a d12 over 2d6, because you have a 1 in 12 chance of getting a 12 as opposed to a 1 in 36 chance, even if the average of 2d6 is a bit higher. It's preference, and people aren't crazy or dumb for doing one over the other.
I certainly can't win seeing that you only post when you can't focus on deriding my posts.

I guess I should feel flattered, but I don't.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
 

mikal768

Explorer
Why does it matter though? From a practical standpoint, what does them making "errata" actually give a player that they can't already get just from deciding on their own that how things are written in the PHB are unwanted for their game and making their own ruling? The satisfaction that they can now "Play RAW!" officially? Yeah, great. Whoop-di-doo. Congratulations, you can now claim you only "Play RAW". Your medal and certificate will arrive in the mail for you shortly.

Official rulings allow a base which everyone can agree on. It allows a player to go from table A to table B with the knowledge that if the game is not modified, they can expect a certain type of play experience.

Yes, there are house rules, and many people use them. But that doesn't negate the utility of having official rules that are supposedly balanced to use as a foundation.

Otherwise... why even bother buying the rulebooks? If the basis of the rules means so little to you, why not just go full theater of the mind and make your own stuff up as you go along?

So disparage official rules all you want. The fact you're playing D&D and use the PHB/DM/MM shows that you do think they matter.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
I certainly can't win seeing that you only post when you can't focus on deriding my posts.

I guess I should feel flattered, but I don't.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

If you think I only post in response to you, you obviously don't read most of my posts. I do, however, make commentary to ideas I find ridiculous*, so if you think you're being invoked more than most, then that should probably tell you something. Maybe if you didn't consistently whine about how literally every aspect of the game is broken or wrong in every thread on every context, you wouldn't be called out so much. Just a thought.

*like your argument you just made about how you imply no one in their right mind would ever roll for HP, which I find to be a ridiculous position for reasons I pointed out.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Official rulings allow a base which everyone can agree on. It allows a player to go from table A to table B with the knowledge that if the game is not modified, they can expect a certain type of play experience.

Except that because of "Rulings Not Rules"... practically every game IS modified.

Thus forcing yourself to only "Play RAW" is still pointless. Unless you just happen to move to another table that just happens to have a DM who's also caught up in "Only Play RAW!" just as you are.

But I'm not so sure Jeremy and the rest of the guys over at WotC need to work so hard for that slimmest of chances.

Yes, there are house rules, and many people use them. But that doesn't negate the utility of having official rules that are supposedly balanced to use as a foundation.

Otherwise... why even bother buying the rulebooks? If the basis of the rules means so little to you, why not just go full theater of the mind and make your own stuff up as you go along?

So disparage official rules all you want. The fact you're playing D&D and use the PHB/DM/MM shows that you do think they matter.

And if we were talking about foundation rules of the game, then you'd possibly have a point. But we're not. We're talking about WotC wasting their time and scrapping their editorial policy just so a couple people can have it down in writing that an obscure, practically never-to-come-up situation has an "official" rule connected to it... presumably so that they can then go to another table and dictate to their new DM "Well, uh... actually... should one of us choose to play a PC with a negative CON modifier and choose to roll for our hit points... we can at the very least get 1 hit point when we level up even if we roll poorly."

To which the DM at the new table would most likely say "I run my game how *I* want... so you can take your Sage Advice 'Well, actuallys' and go for a long walk off a short pier." As is his or her right to do. Because again... Rulings, Not Rules.

So rather than require every single ridiculous interpretive little thing be hammered out via errata so there's absolutely no, heck no, never in a million years, question about what every single "rule" is in the game... how about you just ask the DM their decision should any of these obscure niggly little things ever rear their tiny head? Crazy talk, I know... but I think WotC thinks that's better than a 25 page errata document.
 
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Sacrosanct

Legend
Yes, there are house rules, and many people use them. But that doesn't negate the utility of having official rules that are supposedly balanced to use as a foundation.

Otherwise... why even bother buying the rulebooks? If the basis of the rules means so little to you, why not just go full theater of the mind and make your own stuff up as you go along?

And if we were talking about foundation rules of the game, then you'd possibly have a point. But we're not. .

Yeah, this was my first thought when I read that too. For me, the point of buying the rulebooks is for the foundation and outline of how the game works. For things like this? That may not ever even come up in a came? If they did come up I'd just make a ruling right there and move on. That doesn't mean the "rules mean so little to" me, and there's a HUGE middle ground between houseruling "you get at least 1 hp per level" and "just go full theater of the mind and make your own stuff up."

Sage advice is, and has always been since the beginning, just one guy's opinion of how they think it should probably work. Yes, that one guy works at the company and had input in the game design, but that doesn't mean SA is sacrosanct (no pun intended).
 

mikal768

Explorer
Except that because of "Rulings Not Rules"... practically every game IS modified.
So? How does that negate the need or desire to have a strong foundation that rules provide?

And if we were talking about foundation rules of the game, then you'd possibly have a point. But we're not. We're talking about WotC wasting their time and scrapping their editorial policy just so a couple people can have it down in writing that an obscure, practically never-to-come-up situation has an "official" rule connected to it...

Which is why I see on no less than three boards hundreds of posts per board discussing it. Because it's vague, obscure, and practically never-to-come up. If it had such a small impact, why are so many people talking about it? Why are you talking about it?

presumably so that they can then go to another table and dictate to their new DM "Well, uh... actually... should one of us choose to play a PC with a negative CON modifier and choose to roll for our hit points... we can at the very least get 1 hit point when we level up even if we roll poorly."

Or perhaps so that people who've been playing D&D with prior editions know "hey, despite D&D all the way back to Basic in the 70s always allowing a minimum of 1 on a die roll no matter your Con, now you can roll negative numbers. FYI".

Or perhaps so people know as a baseline when going to a new game that doesn't have a house rule about Con and HP that if they put a negative modifier creating score in Con they could lose HP if they roll.

Or perhaps so a DM who wants to use the RAW can point to it when a player from a previous edition goes "but that's not how the game was played back in 1/2/3/4th edition!"

To which the DM at the new table would most likely say "I run my game how *I* want... so you can take your Sage Advice 'Well, actuallys' and go for a long walk off a short pier." As is his or her right to do. Because again... Rulings, Not Rules.

Ah, so you prefer to play with DMs who are so close minded they won't even consider other viewpoints? Maybe you like that kind of autocratic style in your game. I prefer someone open minded and amenable to change if presented with good reasons why. That's how I run my own games. But then I'm not a jerk who says "I run games how *I* want, and screw you for having a different opinion, one backed up by the person who designed the game!"

Yeah, this was my first thought when I read that too. For me, the point of buying the rulebooks is for the foundation and outline of how the game works. For things like this? That may not ever even come up in a came? If they did come up I'd just make a ruling right there and move on. That doesn't mean the "rules mean so little to" me, and there's a HUGE middle ground between houseruling "you get at least 1 hp per level" and "just go full theater of the mind and make your own stuff up."


Sage advice is, and has always been since the beginning, just one guy's opinion of how they think it should probably work. Yes, that one guy works at the company and had input in the game design, but that doesn't mean SA is sacrosanct (no pun intended).

I never said it was sacrosanct, but his original post was essentially saying "who needs rule clarifications?".
I provided reasons for why people would want rulings.
He also said rule clarifications and rules don't matter, because house rules and DMs. So the logical conclusion of rules not mattering is... not wasting time and money on the PHB, MM, and DMG. After all, if you're just going to house rule it, why bother with the rules at all? Just make it up as you go along.

After all, the DM plays *his* way, and if you don't like it leave.
 
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It's good that the designers are there to clarify, for example with the errata , where they simply admit when the text doesn't match the RAI, and so they issue a corrige for it.
Errata is explicitly not what Sage Advice is for. That is my point. They do not want Crawford (and "they" certainly includes Crawford himself) changing the official printed rules through Twitter fiat. Crawford made the correct call here. I disagree with some of his other calls, but declaring a mathematical floor where none exists in the PHB would definitely be beyond the scope of Sage Advice.
 

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