D&D 5E Losing Interest in Character/ Class?

[DND_Reborn]

I think one of the issues in 5e that can make it boring is, counterintuitively, how fast you level up. If you run any of the published campaigns, you level up every 2-3 sessions. You barely have time to learn what your latest set of bells & whistles does before you get a new feature. Consequently, you can't really spend a lot of time invested in any particular place, and any attempt to make the party do so feels like you're just delaying the next level unnecessarily (WTF? I don't get XP for this!).

By reintroducing AD&D's leveling schedule, I found that sprawling dungeon complexes work much better, since the party doesn't level up and out of them after six rooms, and the time spent at a given level is long enough that we stay much more focused on the adventure rather than thinking about what feat or spell to take next. Yes, it means we're only at 9th level after 2 years, but we've had far more fun with this than any published campaign.

Hmm.. that is an interesting point. The character in the OP is for CoS, and we have leveled 5 sessions out of 7 I think. Now, we play long sessions, about 10 hours each, so for normal 4-5 hours sessions, it would equal out to every 2-3 as you say.

So, are you making it so 2000 xp or so is needed for level 2, etc.?

Now, our main game has had 36 sessions (I am the note-taker, so I keep track) in the last 16 months. Again, long sessions, so you could double it for the more regular 4-5 hours sessions, so about 72 sessions. We are 12-13 levels, so averaging about 6 sessions a level. At that pace it did feel more like I had time to develop and adjust for new features, etc.

Still, I don't know how that will help with the fact that subclass features are not fitting to the character.

 

[DND_Reborn]

My experience too, so I've slowed my games down. Let's people enjoy the ride a bit, get more familiar with the character, and look forward more to how Baron So-and-So is going to respond to their attempt to go behind his back and get his wife's financial support than what class feature they're going to get next.

It sounds like a good idea. I think I will slow things down for my upcoming game when we start it.

As to the OP, ran AD&D for years and there was a simplicity to the classes wherein you had to rely more on your player ingenuity rather than character abilities (because you had very few!)

Guessing the OP is longing for less of a rigid class system and more freedom to plug-and-play class features, and I'm always a fan of do whatever makes your game run better.

I think going in either of these directions might work.

 

[GlassJaw]

This got me thinking about my mindset with 5E. With the features you get, I find myself more thinking about my character, level, and what features I want next--and where might I get them. Now, I do this with the character concept/story in mind, not just to min/max them or anything.

But it is vastly different from my 1E/2E experience. Then, it was always about the next adventure, and without the choices for the character, I never had to worry about it.

This sensation makes my characters in 5E feel less valuable to me since they become more a collection of abilities and features instead of a persona.

I am curious if other players run into this? And I wonder if it is also a big part of why games sort of die out around levels 6-10?

Really interesting - and surprising - to hear this! I feel completely the opposite, especially with regards to 3ed & 4ed. 3ed was ALL about the next carrot you were going to get and optimizing every choice. You also had to put in a decent amount of work to know what your options were.

I would definitely like some more choice in 5E but as constructed, it's strikes such a good balance between mechanical options and concept/story.

 

[atanakar]

I think one of the issues in 5e that can make it boring is, counterintuitively, how fast you level up. If you run any of the published campaigns, you level up every 2-3 sessions. You barely have time to learn what your latest set of bells & whistles does before you get a new feature. Consequently, you can't really spend a lot of time invested in any particular place, and any attempt to make the party do so feels like you're just delaying the next level unnecessarily (WTF? I don't get XP for this!).

That is entirely player (or group) dependant. Some players/groups are very good at learning and remembering new character rules. I had AD&D players who had trouble remembering the special powers of their magical items and the few class abilities AD&D had to offer. ;-)

 

[DND_Reborn]

Really interesting - and surprising - to hear this! I feel completely the opposite, especially with regards to 3ed & 4ed. 3ed was ALL about the next carrot you were going to get and optimizing every choice. You also had to put in a decent amount of work to know what your options were.

I would definitely like some more choice in 5E but as constructed, it's strikes such a good balance between mechanical options and concept/story.

Well, I only played 3E for about half a year, and never played 4E. From looking it over, and PathFinder as well, I don't think I would like either of them really. I know a lot of people do, and I think its great.

But much of my experience in 5E has been more about "Hey, look at what my character can do!" and not "Man, look what we just did." We still have a lot of the latter, don't misunderstand, but IMO we have too much of the former.

I mean, look at how much time people spend making character builds in 5E compared to 1E or 2E. I am guilty of that myself and admit it. I never spent hours pouring over the 1E AD&D PHB, building up character to a level and planning things out. But, I spend a lot of time reviewing dozens of concepts and subclasses and features in 5E as I try to get familiar with them all.

I explained to one of our new players: AD&D was a complex game, but characters were simple. 5E is reversed: the game is simple, but characters are complex.

 

[TwoSix]

Well, I only played 3E for about half a year, and never played 4E. From looking it over, and PathFinder as well, I don't think I would like either of them really. I know a lot of people do, and I think its great.

That's probably a lot to do with it, psychologically. Quite a few of us have spent the last 20 years playing games with a detailed, crunchy character building feature. Heck, 5e is a big step down in terms of complexity from 3.5/PF/4e. If character building is something you're still just getting used to, I'm not surprised that you're starting to run into situations where you realize it might not be something you prefer.

 

[jayoungr]

Maybe it's neither the system nor the adventures--maybe it's a change in your attitude? Tastes change, RL intrudes and distracts, and sometimes things don't captivate the way they did a few years ago. And of course, in a few more years, the pendulum might swing back again.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Maybe it's neither the system nor the adventures--maybe it's a change in your attitude? Tastes change, RL intrudes and distracts, and sometimes things don't captivate the way they did a few years ago. And of course, in a few more years, the pendulum might swing back again.

LOL true, you never know...

 

[fearsomepirate]

That is entirely player (or group) dependant. Some players/groups are very good at learning and remembering new character rules. I had AD&D players who had trouble remembering the special powers of their magical items and the few class abilities AD&D had to offer. ;-)

Even if you have a photographic memory, 3 sessions isn't enough to master a bunch of new spells. The divine casters are on the extreme end. The cleric gets access to 20 new spells from the PHB at 5th level. How many will he even cast by 6th level? Like maybe Beacon of Hope once and Spirit Guardians a few times? Even as a Valor Bard, with only two new spells per level, by the time the campaign had finished at 15th level, I had at least 6 or 7 spells that had gone completely uncast. Or I'd stumble upon a kind of neat trick, and the next time it would come up, well, we were three levels higher, so it wasn't really useful any more.

But much of my experience in 5E has been more about "Hey, look at what my character can do!" and not "Man, look what we just did." We still have a lot of the latter, don't misunderstand, but IMO we have too much of the former.

I think this again ties into speedy leveling. When you spend a long time at a given level, the novelty of your new abilities & spells wear off, and you don't think about them as much. My Temple of Elemental Evil campaign has been much more about what the party is doing to defeat Zuggtmoy, while I feel like my Out of the Abyss campaign has a lot more, "Guess what, naughty word, I just got 4th level spells! Eat some BLIGHT!!!" in it.

 

[atanakar]

Even if you have a photographic memory, 3 sessions isn't enough to master a bunch of new spells. The divine casters are on the extreme end. The cleric gets access to 20 new spells from the PHB at 5th level. How many will he even cast by 6th level? Like maybe Beacon of Hope once and Spirit Guardians a few times? Even as a Valor Bard, with only two new spells per level, by the time the campaign had finished at 15th level, I had at least 6 or 7 spells that had gone completely uncast. Or I'd stumble upon a kind of neat trick, and the next time it would come up, well, we were three levels higher, so it wasn't really useful any more.

I have a player who plays a 7th level wizard and a 7th level cleric at the same time. He has spell cards for each character. One stack for attack spells, one stack for defensive spells and one stack for utility spells. He plays faster than the fighter who only has a single and a simpler character. It's a question of personal investment and player ability.