(LOTR) About Sauron, who indeed does not look like a kitchen appliance

[Edena_of_Neith]

On the White Council message board, there is a thread discussing the appearance of Sauron in the film FOTR.
Apparently, someone - not on the White Council message board, but somewhere else - commented that Sauron looked like a kitchen appliance.

I wonder if Sauron-with-spikey-helmet is back???

Anyways, I had a response, in which I presented my views on Sauron, as he is, both in the film and in the books.
My take, as it were, on Tolkien's conception.

Now, I don't know how many of you believe that Sauron is a great floating eyeball (beholders, eat your hearts out!), but I myself think of him differently.
Here, then, is another long, never-to-the-point article by Edena_of_Neith (pity the poor people on the White Council message board, who get socked with my articles!)

I think there is some confusion concerning the Eye of Sauron.
But I believe the whole mess of confusion can be clarified if you look at what happened, in the film, when Frodo ascended Amon Hen and beheld Barad-Dur from the Seeing Seat of Gondor.

Did you notice, that at the very start of the scene where Frodo beheld the Eye, that it seemed to blur the top of Barad-Dur around it? The mighty pinnacle of Sauron's capital city and base was blurred behind the red fire around the Eye.
Then, the Eye grew until the top of Barad-Dur was not visible at all.

Now, we know that the Eye is not that big. It is not a thousand feet across, although one might get that impression from that scene (after all, there it is totally obscuring all the pinnacle of mighty Barad-Dur.)
We know the Eye is much smaller than that. How to explain the discrepancy?

If you look at any object through field glasses (or a camcorder with the zoom lens powered way up), an object will look bigger, because it looks closer than it is.
In effect, this is what happened when Frodo beheld Sauron, and Sauron beheld Frodo, when Frodo was on Amon Hen (in the film, obviously - the Eye missed Frodo in the book.)
We know Frodo was not looking at Sauron through field glasses, much less through the eyepiece of a camcorder with the zoom turned way up. So what gives here?

The answer is simple. Sauron is able to project his power over a great distance. Thus, he can fill his armies of orcs with hate, a lust for destruction, with strength and endurance beyond what they would normally have, with battle prowess greater than their normal combat abilities.
And so, he can project his power to perceive as well - and his power to perceive is very great, able to scry anywhere in Middle Earth, piercing through all material defenses.
When his power is so projected, when his gaze is so projected, it appears bigger. Anyone looking at the Eye when Sauron is projecting his gaze, will see it as if looking at it through field glasses.

Furthermore, the Gaze of Sauron has power in itself. This is not a mere scrying device ... this is an extension of the power and will of Sauron himself, and his power and will is awesomely great.
Thus, those who perceive the Eye are going to be daunted by the vision, then terrified, then stricken witless. Or, in the case of Frodo, terrified and knocked back off the Seeing Seat by the force of Sauron's gaze.
A side effect of this, is that Sauron's gaze (the Eye) seems to swallow up everything around it in fire. Thus, Frodo saw the fire consume the shadowy figures in the common room of the Prancing Pony. Thus, Frodo saw the fire around the Eye first obscure the pinnacle of Barad-Dur, then obscure it entirely.

In effect, the Eye is the Avatar of Sauron. Whatever his spirit form (since he cannot yet take physical shape), a person viewing Sauron is going to see the Eye only, because Sauron is regarding the viewer back.
The Eye is going to always be terrifying and whelming, swallowing up the features around it, looking amplified as if the viewer were looking through field glasses.
This is because Sauron is simply so great in stature, so very powerful, and he has the ability to project his hate, his rage, his ability to inspire his own side and terrify his foes, through his gaze.

- - -

When Sauron had physical form, and he had the Ring, back in the Second Age, it was much worse.
Sauron's armor, which people are comparing with a kitchen appliance, is like the cloaks of the Ringwraiths - it is a disguise.
The being inside that armor, has very little in common with said armor, just as the incorporeal Ringwraiths have very little in common with their cloaks.
Sauron is implied, in the film, to be a being of fire and energy - that fire and energy radiates through the heavy armor, shines through every chink in it, and Gil Galad bursts into flame when Sauron grabs him with one gauntleted hand (not shown in the theatrical film) to be burned to a crisp in seconds. Even the Ring itself is almost red hot ... and the Ring cannot otherwise be warmed - not even slightly - by any dwarven forge or massive fire known. (Perhaps dragonfire would warm it, a little bit.)
There is little question, then, that if Sauron took off his armor, his physical appearance would be every bit as awful and terrifying as that of the balrog - even if Sauron is smaller than the balrog physically, it would not matter.

I believe that Sauron's physical form would be amplified in size, to those viewing it. Not because it is actually bigger, but because of Sauron's stature and his ability to project his power to awe and whelm his foes.
He would appear like Galadriel did, in the scene from the Mirror of Galadriel, but Sauron would be infinitely worse. He would tower into the heavens, an indomitable figure of flame and energy and adamantine solidity beyond the ability of any weapon known to touch.

Of course, the Eye of Sauron, the projection of his gaze, was also greater in the Second Age, for Sauron was in his full power in the Second Age.

Why did Sauron wear armor when he came forth from Barad-Dur? For the same reason his foes did, when they assailed Sauron with their Last Alliance.
Regardless of his appearance, his ability to whelm foes with his stature, his ability to terrify and cow them with his gaze, he was still vulnerable to their weapons - especially to great weapons like Gil Galad's spear and Elendil's sword.

- - -

I suppose that, if one looked at Sauron unarmored, and Sauron did not choose to manifest his power, that Sauron would look like a very imposing figure of flame and energy.
Very terrible, very hideous: a small version of the balrog in some ways.
However, Sauron always projected his power, and his hatred, and his lust for destruction and death, when he beheld a foe ... and so his gaze was always seem as greatly amplified in size, terrifying and whelming to even the most stalwart of onlookers, and able to penetrate nearly all defenses physical and mental ... the famed Eye of Sauron.

Imagine poor Gollum. Sauron was RIGHT THERE, standing over him as Gollum was being tortured.
Sauron took a personal hand in that torture ... Gollum spoke of Sauron's four remaining digits being quite enough, giving this little fact away.
Sauron would undoubtedly have been his gaze upon Gollum, and Gollum looking back would have perceived it as the Eye.
However, this was not the Eye from a thousand miles or a hundred miles away - this was the Eye of Sauron, from about THREE FEET away.
Nor did it go away after a brief instant. Sauron bent his anger (his anger at Gollum, for daring to hold the One Ring, must have been awesome) and hate, his power, upon Gollum for long, long periods of time.
The wonder of it is that Gollum retained any of his sanity at all, much less enough wits to do anything rational ever again.

The ONLY being in Middle Earth able to withstand the gaze of Sauron, and win against it, forcing it away, was Galadriel.
And she could only do so because she wore the Ring of Adamant, which bolstered her already great stature, and because Galadriel was defending, not attacking, and because Galadriel was in her home base of power, in Caras Galadon.

Therefore, I think the issue of what Sauron's armor looked like is a very minor point.
Even the issue of what Sauron himself would look like, if you could see him unarmored and without him looking at you, is a minor point.
For if you were so unfortunate as to be in Sauron's presence, he WOULD be looking at you, and what you would see would not be Sauron, but the projection of Sauron as he focused his hatred, his anger, his capacity for violence, his immeasurable power, his incredible stature, upon you and your frail body and mind. Needless to say, you would be grovelling on the floor, shrieking in pain, all your wits driven out of you, within the first minute of such exposure.

 

[Umbran]

I'll start out by summing up - I think you're reading too far into things, and also making an error in analysis.

On the error - you cannot give your take on Tolkien's conception by looking at the movie. Tolkien himself didn't create the movie's imagry. You need to look at the text.

Tolkien's conception as shown in the trilogy doesn't include the appearance of Sauron, with or without armor, as far as I recall. We know that he had a physical form with a hand and a ring, but otherwise the filmmakers were left all on their lonesome. Disagreements over that image are simply disagreements over art, and have little substance.

Looking at teh text, I think you'll find little or no support for the idea that Sauron can "can fill his armies of orcs with hate, a lust for destruction, with strength and endurance beyond what they would normally have, with battle prowess greater than their normal combat abilities." over a distance. I recall no scene in the book detailing such exertion of his power. Unless you can find a passage, I'd have ot say this comes out of your own mind.

Similarly for his ability to scry. While they do occasionally refer to the "Eye of Sauron", the more usual reference to his ability to gain information is that "he has many eyes", meaning spies - men, half-orcs, birds, wolves, etc. A being who's "power to perceive is very great, able to scry anywhere in Middle Earth, piercing through all material defenses" should not have had any trouble locating and stopping the Fellowship.

It seems to me that Sauron's ability to see is actually quite limited. When Frodo looks into the Mirror of Galadirel, and again from the Seat of Amon Hen, the Eye is searching, but does not actually find Frodo. Funny, that. One would imagine that Sauron would be able to peg Frodo and the rest of the Fellowship pretty darned easily, considering that they use a srcying magic locked to a known location. But no.

Note also that Frodo does not actually see the Eye from the Seat. In the text he feels it. Tolkien does not give a visual description of an eyeball floating around searching. That's merely Peter Jackson trying to display a thing that's difficult to get across in film - something going on inside a character's head.

Frankly, I think the Eye is merely a metaphor. It isn't a thing, physical or spiritual. Mere mortals have problems grokking what goes on inside the mind of a fallen angel. When they get such information, it is parsed as a metaphorical image they can understand.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I don't have a problem with most of what you just said, Umbran. Seems reasonable enough.
I take back my analysis as it regards the books. I'll limit my interpretation above to the film by Peter Jackson, where it seems to be more relevant.

 

[Storm Raven]

Looking at teh text, I think you'll find little or no support for the idea that Sauron can "can fill his armies of orcs with hate, a lust for destruction, with strength and endurance beyond what they would normally have, with battle prowess greater than their normal combat abilities." over a distance. I recall no scene in the book detailing such exertion of his power. Unless you can find a passage, I'd have ot say this comes out of your own mind.

I think there is pretty good support for this idea. Look at the passages relating to the Battle of Morannon at the end of RotK. When Sauron turns his gaze away from his armies to turn his attention to Frodo's claim of the Ring at Oroduin, his armies quail. When the Ring is undone, his minions fall into a stupor, and are hunted down and killed by the armies of men that they were previously about to overwhelm.

 

[Umbran]

I think there is pretty good support for this idea.

I haven't reread RotK yet, so I don't recall the passages to which you refer, and I don't have a copy handy. However, I'd call it kind of anomalous. Orcs were waging war years before without problems - specifically, in The Hobbit, just after Gandalf and Co. chased the Necromancer out of Mirkwood, when presumably he would not have had attention to spend on orcs. They were still plenty fierce at the Battle of Five Armies.

If what you are talking about happens at the Morannon - well, that isn't exactly far from The Enemy himself. It's his own front door. You'd expect him to have some influence there.

Also, I don't know if there were Ringwraiths present at the moment you mention. Undoing the One Ring would undo them as well. Sudden loss of the wraiths, who do have an aura about them, would have some effect on the troops.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Here's how I interpreted what happened at the Morannon: Sauron turned his attention from his armies, but perhaps more importantly, his field officers, the remaining Nazgul, left the field of battle to go after Frodo. The armies surely felt their influence, and quailed when the Wraiths left because they were, in effect, leaderless. Then, when Sauron was finally vanquished, everyone felt it - and it had a profound effect on the morale of his army. Not just because he exerted some influence that affected them, but because their ultimate leader, and, in effect, god, was taken from them. EDIT: It's kind of academic whether the destruction of the Nazgul contributed to the loss of morale - they died at the same time Sauron did.