Ashrem Bayle
Explorer
As others before me said, check out Midnight. 
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LOTR campaign -- "Frodo Fails"?
- Thread starter elrobey
- Start date
Remathilis
Legend
I love the concept... This MIGHT be the only way I'd ever run a Middle Earth set game.
I'll don't know if I read it right, but it doesn't sound like Sauron won... yet. In fact, he suffered a number of setbacks. Pelenthor fields was still a bust, the Witch-King is dead, and Saruman is still defeated. The ring is not in Sauron's hand, but he is closer than he was previsously. Its not the Midnight "Sauron won" sceanrio, there is still a chance of Sauron's defeat, and not all the lands of Middle Earth are conquered, but the fight would be alot harder...
For characters; you still have Faramir, Eowyn, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Radergast, Elrond, Gladriel, Arwyn, and Treebeard as potential allies. Saroman, Wormtongue, Gollum, and the eight other Wraiths as minor villains. Not to mention, you have the Ents, the few elves left, the dwarves, the rangers of the north, Gondor, and Rohan to oppose Sauron still. Babadil and the Blue Wizards are wild-cards.
This really strikes me as a campagin that, if run where Sauron's victory is NOT assured, could have all the drama and excitement of the books/movies. Imagine the PC's hunting for Gollum, recovering Narsil from Mordor, discovering a brooding, obsessed Sam with Sting and the Phial still searching for the Ring (to destroy it, he thinks), helping the Hobbits during the Scourging, enlisting more help from the various forces, even facing down a physical form of Sauron (in his 2nd Age armor) in a final decisive battle at the Crack of Doom.
Figure out how your going to do magic and classes (cough cough generics from UA) and you got one helluva game going.
Can I play?
I'll don't know if I read it right, but it doesn't sound like Sauron won... yet. In fact, he suffered a number of setbacks. Pelenthor fields was still a bust, the Witch-King is dead, and Saruman is still defeated. The ring is not in Sauron's hand, but he is closer than he was previsously. Its not the Midnight "Sauron won" sceanrio, there is still a chance of Sauron's defeat, and not all the lands of Middle Earth are conquered, but the fight would be alot harder...
For characters; you still have Faramir, Eowyn, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Radergast, Elrond, Gladriel, Arwyn, and Treebeard as potential allies. Saroman, Wormtongue, Gollum, and the eight other Wraiths as minor villains. Not to mention, you have the Ents, the few elves left, the dwarves, the rangers of the north, Gondor, and Rohan to oppose Sauron still. Babadil and the Blue Wizards are wild-cards.
This really strikes me as a campagin that, if run where Sauron's victory is NOT assured, could have all the drama and excitement of the books/movies. Imagine the PC's hunting for Gollum, recovering Narsil from Mordor, discovering a brooding, obsessed Sam with Sting and the Phial still searching for the Ring (to destroy it, he thinks), helping the Hobbits during the Scourging, enlisting more help from the various forces, even facing down a physical form of Sauron (in his 2nd Age armor) in a final decisive battle at the Crack of Doom.
Figure out how your going to do magic and classes (cough cough generics from UA) and you got one helluva game going.
Can I play?
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Obviously that's a real downer of an end to a campaign. It sounds like a great way to kick off a new compaign though -- with the caveat that it shouldn't really be impossible to overthrough the evil tyrants, any more than it was impossible to waltz into Sauron's kingdom and destroy the One Ring where it was forged.jerichothebard said:
Thanks to all who have posted so far with encouragement and ideas!
I will look into Midnight ... that's intriguing ... but as Remathilis indicates, what I'm pondering is not really the "Sauron wins" scenario, but the "is there anything we can yet do to prevent the Sauron-wins scenario" scenario.
I've never run a Middle-Earth game before (in about 25 years of DMing) and this is probably the only way I'd consider it, too. I do have a lot of material (MERP and other) sitting around gathering dust from over the years that I'm looking forward to putting to use if I can.
Keep those ideas coming, and thanks again.
I will look into Midnight ... that's intriguing ... but as Remathilis indicates, what I'm pondering is not really the "Sauron wins" scenario, but the "is there anything we can yet do to prevent the Sauron-wins scenario" scenario.
I've never run a Middle-Earth game before (in about 25 years of DMing) and this is probably the only way I'd consider it, too. I do have a lot of material (MERP and other) sitting around gathering dust from over the years that I'm looking forward to putting to use if I can.
Keep those ideas coming, and thanks again.
Another thought to ponder:
Let's assume for the sake of argument that Sauron recovers the One Ring. What is his plan from there? I don't mean what would YOU do if you were him, but what would Sauron do, given what we know (or surmise) of his personality?
For example ... would he try to quickly and systematically conquer all the known lands? Or would he proceed more cautiously, mustering overwhelming strength and taking on one target, then stopping to muster more strength, taking perhaps dozens of years to achieve a total victory?
Would he target Minas Tirith first, or Lorien, or somewhere else?
Or would he perhaps delegate the task of conquest to one or more servants while he pursues other goals, such as figuring out a way to regain a physical form, or how to attack Valinor, or free Morgoth?
IIRC, Sauron recovered all the Seven rings that were not destroyed .. what use would he put them to? What use would he have in mind for Saruman and his skill at creating corruptions like Uruk-Hai? The more I ponder these things the more I wonder....
Let's assume for the sake of argument that Sauron recovers the One Ring. What is his plan from there? I don't mean what would YOU do if you were him, but what would Sauron do, given what we know (or surmise) of his personality?
For example ... would he try to quickly and systematically conquer all the known lands? Or would he proceed more cautiously, mustering overwhelming strength and taking on one target, then stopping to muster more strength, taking perhaps dozens of years to achieve a total victory?
Would he target Minas Tirith first, or Lorien, or somewhere else?
Or would he perhaps delegate the task of conquest to one or more servants while he pursues other goals, such as figuring out a way to regain a physical form, or how to attack Valinor, or free Morgoth?
IIRC, Sauron recovered all the Seven rings that were not destroyed .. what use would he put them to? What use would he have in mind for Saruman and his skill at creating corruptions like Uruk-Hai? The more I ponder these things the more I wonder....
ShadowDenizen said:
The Corsairs will be little problem in ME for centuries, if not millenia... Before his untimely death, Aragorn (then in Rohan) lead his troops upon the Paths of the Dead, calling the dead to the stone, and then leading them against Umbar, and sailing their captured ships to break the Siege of Gondor, which allowed him to march to the Morannon... Hence, no more worries from that quarter, while Gondor is still occupied. Umbar is sacked, and only the few ships away from port at the time survive.
jerichothebard said:
Seconded!
That being the case, however... How sure are the eagles that Gandalf is dead? (I can't believe that anything less than Sauron, Itself, could defeat him! He killed a Balrog, unarmed!) So, Adventures:
1) Morale - Staving off panic, and battling Despair amongst the Gondorians will be a major theme, in this campaign... My first idea, here, would be to steal an idea from the X-Men comic, and quickly introduce the "dark spirit" named Despay're, who tempts men to Despair, as a central figure to the campaign.
2) Are They Dead, Yet? - How sure are those eagles, anyway? EXACTLY what did they see? Is the Fellowship really dead? If so, then where's the evidence? Confirmation must be obtained! Perhaps the reports of their death have been greatly exaggerated!
3) Organizing the Demoralized - Somebody's got to rally the troops, and set them in order... Who? Not the PCs! They're too low level! I don't know what you're going to do, here!...
4) And What of Sam? - He aint dead, yet!... He's feeling better! Can a tracker get across Sarn Ford, and find the Hobbits' trail, following them into Mordor? Better yet, Faramir knew where Frodo, Sam, and Gollum left from Henneth Annun, and the trail from there is fresher... Can a Ranger with Skill Focus: Survival and Self-Sufficiency follow them, and find out what happened to Sam?
5) Why Didn't We Think of This, Before? - Paladins of Dol Amroth and Rangers of Level 4+ are being trained to ride the Giant Eagles of ME, in order to act as messengers to the far-flung foes of Mordor... Any PCs qualified to try out?
6) Our Last, Best Hope! - The Valar... The only army in ME with a prayer of defeating Sauron, once he has the ring... Cirdan has a ship which can reach him, but men can't go, and Galadriel can't (or won't) go, due to the "Ban of the Valar"... The only time that a man has been allowed into Aman was when Aragorn's ancestor, Earendil, sailed in with a Silmaril on his brow! Those are in short supply! One is still on Earendil's brow, up there, in the sky... One was thrown in the ocean, and the other in a volcano... Can we find one of them, or summon Earendil? Can a crew be assembled to sail to Aman, avoiding the isles of shadow, and perils of the Enemy? Can they do it in time?... And will there be anything left living when they return? (Oh yeah, and everyone who sees a Silmaril wants it for their own, too... Minor roadblock, that... Can you say "Brisingammon"? Sure you can! I knew you could!)
7) They're NOT Feeling Better! - With Aragorn gone, Faramir, Eowyn, and Merry/Pippin (I forget which) are dying, with no known way to save them... Radagast probably could, as might Alatar or Pallando, or the missing (dead?) Gandalf... but can an Eagle-rider find them?
8) Athelas! - One of the Wise has been found, but they still need the weed! Any Herbalists in town?
9) Spies Like Us - What're the forces of Sauron up to? Go, see!
10) Fortifying the Fords - The Crossings of Ithillien must be fortified! Ruins into castles! Who will volunteer!
11) Hit & Run! - The Bright Captain is looking for replacements to man hidden outposts in Ithillien. Raid till they're paid!
12) Intell Is Swell! - You've proven yourselves as spies, warriors, and capable of handling tough situations... Now we've got another one for you... Someone needs to travel south and east, into near Harad, then aroun the mountains and into the slave-lands of Mordor or Rhun, and send back word of what the enemy is up to... It's a LRP mission, to be sure, and one that'll take a good long while to accomplish... Eagles are standing by to drop the volunteers behind enemy lines... Good luck!
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Xath
Moder-gator
I like the overall idea, but there are several holes that I would like to poke in this from a book perspective.
While it is completely possible for Aragorn and the entirety of the army to be destroyed, Gandalf is another thing entirely. Mithrandir is a Maia, one of the Valar who chose to remain in Middle-Earth. Thus he is immortal and cannot be completely destroyed. Sauron is also a Maia, however, since he poured so much of his power into the making of the ring, if the ring is destroyed, it is then possible to kill Sauron. This also goes into the song (if you've never read the Silmarillion, this won't make any sense) in a sense that no creatures aside from the race of Men(including haflings) have free will. Since the Maia were once Valar and were the ones who played the song, they have some ability to manipulate their chosen paths in the fate-intwined Middle-Earth. But if they stray from their appointed path, then there is an opening in the song for them to be written out. Thus, Morgoth brought dischord to the song, putting an opening for his death. Saruman forsook his path as the head of the Council of the Wise, his staff was broken, and there was an opening for his death. Sauron poured all of his power into the ring, an opening for his death. Gandalf, on the other hand, has followed the song he helped to create, and makes several references to that fact throughout the books. He can't die. If his body is killed, he will be reborn, just as he was in Moria.
If Aragorn is dead, then so are Faramir, Eowyn, and Merry.
Firstly, I'd like to point out that in the books, Frodo did fail.
That out of the way, you would want to change the manner in which Frodo fails. The most probable course is that Frodo was victorious in his fight with Smeagol and claimed the ring for himself. When Frodo put on the ring, Sauron immediately knew where he was and undoubtably would have sent forces to retrieve it. Insane Frodo, ring on hand, would most likely have killed Sam after killing Gollum. Even though Sam could have beaten Frodo in a fight, he would do nothing to hurt his master. By himself, with no idea how to tap into the power of the ring, Frodo would have been easy prey for Sauron. Thus chances are, that Sauron would have the ring.
If Sauron has the ring, then Lothlorien and Rivendell are immediately lost. They were made with the power of rings linked to the one, and through the one, Sauron can twist those creations. This said, Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf would immediately know that Sauron had obtained the ring, and they would know to get rid of their rings as quickly as possible.
My 2 cents from a book perspective. But as the GM, you have the right to do anything you want.
While it is completely possible for Aragorn and the entirety of the army to be destroyed, Gandalf is another thing entirely. Mithrandir is a Maia, one of the Valar who chose to remain in Middle-Earth. Thus he is immortal and cannot be completely destroyed. Sauron is also a Maia, however, since he poured so much of his power into the making of the ring, if the ring is destroyed, it is then possible to kill Sauron. This also goes into the song (if you've never read the Silmarillion, this won't make any sense) in a sense that no creatures aside from the race of Men(including haflings) have free will. Since the Maia were once Valar and were the ones who played the song, they have some ability to manipulate their chosen paths in the fate-intwined Middle-Earth. But if they stray from their appointed path, then there is an opening in the song for them to be written out. Thus, Morgoth brought dischord to the song, putting an opening for his death. Saruman forsook his path as the head of the Council of the Wise, his staff was broken, and there was an opening for his death. Sauron poured all of his power into the ring, an opening for his death. Gandalf, on the other hand, has followed the song he helped to create, and makes several references to that fact throughout the books. He can't die. If his body is killed, he will be reborn, just as he was in Moria.
If Aragorn is dead, then so are Faramir, Eowyn, and Merry.
Firstly, I'd like to point out that in the books, Frodo did fail.
That out of the way, you would want to change the manner in which Frodo fails. The most probable course is that Frodo was victorious in his fight with Smeagol and claimed the ring for himself. When Frodo put on the ring, Sauron immediately knew where he was and undoubtably would have sent forces to retrieve it. Insane Frodo, ring on hand, would most likely have killed Sam after killing Gollum. Even though Sam could have beaten Frodo in a fight, he would do nothing to hurt his master. By himself, with no idea how to tap into the power of the ring, Frodo would have been easy prey for Sauron. Thus chances are, that Sauron would have the ring.
If Sauron has the ring, then Lothlorien and Rivendell are immediately lost. They were made with the power of rings linked to the one, and through the one, Sauron can twist those creations. This said, Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf would immediately know that Sauron had obtained the ring, and they would know to get rid of their rings as quickly as possible.
My 2 cents from a book perspective. But as the GM, you have the right to do anything you want.
snarfoogle
First Post
Alright, I'll try a shot.
1) Attercop! Tomnoddy! Reports from Mirkwood tell of dark shapes moving in the trees... in the general direction of Mordor. Spiders and forest-goblins are massing, preparing to go to Mordor. However, Mirkwood and Mordor are quite a long way apart. You might want to stop them on the way.
2) The Seven he has gathered to himself, or they have been destroyed. But have some of the Seven REALLY been destroyed? Perhaps a young Cold-Drake or Fire-Drake kept it in his hoard, deep in the mountains where no one has found him. Maybe you should gather it, and destroy it, or something.
3) Killed the great Goblin! Some of the main supporters of Sauron are the orcs of the Misty Mountains. They're pretty much dead, but who knows what artifacts they have deep under their mountain? You should go and exterminate them. This might even be able to get one of the Beornings on your side.
4) Kill the men! Kill the elves! Keep the gold for ourselves! One of the most important things about an army is weaponry. You should go to the Lonely Mountain, and get some +1 maces, eh?
1) Attercop! Tomnoddy! Reports from Mirkwood tell of dark shapes moving in the trees... in the general direction of Mordor. Spiders and forest-goblins are massing, preparing to go to Mordor. However, Mirkwood and Mordor are quite a long way apart. You might want to stop them on the way.
2) The Seven he has gathered to himself, or they have been destroyed. But have some of the Seven REALLY been destroyed? Perhaps a young Cold-Drake or Fire-Drake kept it in his hoard, deep in the mountains where no one has found him. Maybe you should gather it, and destroy it, or something.
3) Killed the great Goblin! Some of the main supporters of Sauron are the orcs of the Misty Mountains. They're pretty much dead, but who knows what artifacts they have deep under their mountain? You should go and exterminate them. This might even be able to get one of the Beornings on your side.
4) Kill the men! Kill the elves! Keep the gold for ourselves! One of the most important things about an army is weaponry. You should go to the Lonely Mountain, and get some +1 maces, eh?
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