LOTR campaign -- "Frodo Fails"?

[Pants]

While it is completely possible for Aragorn and the entirety of the army to be destroyed, Gandalf is another thing entirely. Mithrandir is a Maia, one of the Valar who chose to remain in Middle-Earth. Thus he is immortal and cannot be completely destroyed. Sauron is also a Maia, however, since he poured so much of his power into the making of the ring, if the ring is destroyed, it is then possible to kill Sauron. This also goes into the song (if you've never read the Silmarillion, this won't make any sense) in a sense that no creatures aside from the race of Men(including haflings) have free will. Since the Maia were once Valar and were the ones who played the song, they have some ability to manipulate their chosen paths in the fate-intwined Middle-Earth. But if they stray from their appointed path, then there is an opening in the song for them to be written out. Thus, Morgoth brought dischord to the song, putting an opening for his death. Saruman forsook his path as the head of the Council of the Wise, his staff was broken, and there was an opening for his death. Sauron poured all of his power into the ring, an opening for his death. Gandalf, on the other hand, has followed the song he helped to create, and makes several references to that fact throughout the books. He can't die. If his body is killed, he will be reborn, just as he was in Moria.[/b]

A couple of things:
1) Balrogs are also maia, but they can die.
2) Gandalf did in fact die at one point, he was just brought back. The Valar may send him back again or they may not, but he can die
3) Valar are 'greater gods' in D&D terms, while Maiar are demigods or lesser gods

 

[tjoneslo]

A lot of people run campaigns set in Middle-Earth in various time periods, but I've never seen this concept used before. It's the one that I'm using for my next campaign. I'm all set as far as figuring out what rules changes to use to be true to Middle-Earth, but what I'd like to throw out for discussion is this: Where should the campaign go from here?

Starting blurb for the players goes something like this:

"The campaign begins in Minas Tirith after the Battle of the Morannon (the Black Gate). A single Eagle comes flying to Minas Tirith with tidings of the battle, reporting that all is lost. In the parley before the battle, Frodo's decapitated head was catapulted at Gandalf's feet. The demoralized army of the West was then completely destroyed, including Gandalf, Aragorn, and the other principal figures. Only several Eagles survived to send tidings elsewhere: one to Minas Tirith, one to Galadriel in Lorien, one to Elrond in Rivendell, one to King Brand in Dale. The victorious army of Mordor was last seen moving in the direction of Osgiliath (and thence, presumably, Minas Tirith).

What would you do with this premise? Any and all suggestions welcome.

I have seen an in-depth discussion of someone who ran a campaign like this. They had had Sauron regain the ring, and spread the second age of darkness across all Middle Earth. In this case the third age becomes very much like the first age, where evil has taken over Middle Earth, and there are a few hidden enclaves of resistance.

Even without the Ring, and with the vast majority of the forces of Men destroyed, Sauron and his forces will take over middle earth. You may want decide how long after the final defeat you start the campaign. Depending on this will determine how the campaign becomes a fighting reteat vs a underground resistance campaign.

You should spend some time to work through all the characters in the Book (Elrond, Galadrial, Radagast, Tom Bombadill, etc), and figure out how they would react. Arwen as the avenging angel!

 

[Enkhidu]

If you decided to do this, you could go some of the routes listed above, but don't be afraid to make characters break from the story roles. Let Gollum (apart from Sauron himself, the person most entertwined with the ring) have an epiphany that allows him to realize that the ring must be destroyed and work with the party. Have Saruman rise in the north with a technological empire defies Morder (a clash of the lesser of two evils - for though Saruman has lost much of his personal power, he still has a huge accumulation of knowledge, as well as an impressive amount of ringlore - maybe he has found a way to lessen the ring's power for limited times?).

Maybe Merry or Eowyn, by killing the WitchKing, becomes cursed to take his place? Or maybe Sam takes the One Ring for himself, and with his dogged determination becomes a sort of Anti-Nazgul, terrible in his wrath.

Twist things, and have fun!

 

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

Xath had some good points. For Frodo's hed to be shot at the army he would ahve been captured and thus the "Forces of Darkness" would have the ring. Maybe a new minor villian has it. A "leader Uruk Hai" maybe? This guy gets the ring and it infuses him with some of Saurons will driving HIM to take over the world. He leads the fight against the heroes and so forth. Maybe Sauron is willing to wait a little longer because he "thinks" that everything is still under control as one of "his" men has the ring.

 

[elrobey]

Mithrandir is a Maia, one of the Valar who chose to remain in Middle-Earth. Thus he is immortal and cannot be completely destroyed.

The Maia aren't Valar, they are Maia, lesser spirits who can die and be destroyed -- as others have mentioned. Saruman -- killed; Sauron -- killed; Gandalf the Grey -- killed (sent back only by the intervention of Eru); balrogs -- killed. I forget what happened to Melian, but otherwise, the rule pretty much is that Maia can be, and have been, killed. Sorry.

If Aragorn is dead, then so are Faramir, Eowyn, and Merry.

Whether they are alive or dead is not really of particular concern to me, but even if it were -- I don't recall exactly how this played out in the books. Was the healing process by Aragorn begun before the Battle of the Morannon? If so, then perhaps he already did enough to ensure their survival. Was the healing process not begun till afterward? If so, then any statements in the narrative after the Battle of the Morannon to the effect that Aragorn was the only one who could heal them are not binding gospel.

Firstly, I'd like to point out that in the books, Frodo did fail.

That out of the way, you would want to change the manner in which Frodo fails. The most probable course is that Frodo was victorious in his fight with Smeagol and claimed the ring for himself.

You have your facts mixed up. For Frodo's head to be hurled to the ground before the Battle of the Morannon, Frodo would have to have died in Minas Morgul, if not before. Remember, in the book Frodo's mail shirt is displayed, which had been taken from him at Minas Morgul. So the way in which Frodo fails is almost certainly that he didn't ever wake up after being captured by Shelob -- either he was killed by Shelob or by the orcs in the tower who recovered his body.

If Sauron has the ring, then Lothlorien and Rivendell are immediately lost. They were made with the power of rings linked to the one, and through the one, Sauron can twist those creations.

Actually, that's not correct either. Lorien and Rivendell predate the making of the Three. They are not "immediately lost", though they are diminished to the extent that the Three contributed to them. Exactly what the contribution was is difficult to say, but there's no reason to believe that Lorien and Rivendell depended on the Three for their existence.

 

[elrobey]

Enkhidu, good stuff. I especially like the idea of Saruman as the ambiguous antihero. Perhaps he walks in to Lorien/Rivendell/Minas Tirith/wherever and offers to help the cause. Can they afford to refuse? Can they afford NOT to refuse? Fascinating dilemma. You could have Galadriel assign the PCs to act as Saruman's "probation officers" ... now that raises all sorts of amusing ideas.

 

[humble minion]

Xath had some good points. For Frodo's hed to be shot at the army he would ahve been captured and thus the "Forces of Darkness" would have the ring.

Not necessarily. The most obvious time for Frodo to have been shortened (even further) was when he was imprisoned after being bitten by Shelob. Sam is still wandering round Mordor with the Ring, or more likely got strangled by Gollum one dark night, who then promptly grabbed his Precious and disappeared down a dark hole. The quest to destroy the Ring has failed utterly, the armies of the West are destroyed to the last at the Black Gate simply by weight of numbers rather than the power of Sauron reunited with the One. A new Age of brutal conventional war against an overwhelming foe looms on the horizon for the exhausted West.

Alternatively:
Like Mother Like Daughter: Ungoliant wanted to devour the world, to the point that eventually, bereft of any other sustenance, her hunger drove her to devour herself. Shelob the Great, after a routine meal of two soft wriggling things led to Cirith Ungol by her Sneak, found herself heir to these dreams. And the new power burning in her belly meant she could do it, too... (and when the heroes finally slay Shelob - what of the still-untarnished Ring that they retrieve from her black entrails?)

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

A different tack...

What if Saruman seizes the One Ring?

The armies of the Eye and the White Hand would primarily be locked in battle against each other while sending out raiding parties to pillage resources. In the books, Saruman bragged about having forged his own ring of power. Perhaps Saruman could successfully wield the One Ring for a time? Or tease out its secrets?

That sets up a desperate overall situation where our heroes have reasonable short and medium term goals (evacuate towns, defend villages, beat off raiding parties, set up new defensive positions if Minas Tirith is untenable, seek out new allies from north and south, rally remaining human armies...), but the long term problems are tough to deal with.

 

[snarfoogle]

One could get a lot of plots from Saruman, as he

Spoiler

hasn't been killed yet.

He could actually be a potential ally... How about he joins you for revenge, and then actually doesn't backstab you: it just seems that he does.

 

[Xath]

You have your facts mixed up. For Frodo's head to be hurled to the ground before the Battle of the Morannon, Frodo would have to have died in Minas Morgul, if not before. Remember, in the book Frodo's mail shirt is displayed, which had been taken from him at Minas Morgul. So the way in which Frodo fails is almost certainly that he didn't ever wake up after being captured by Shelob -- either he was killed by Shelob or by the orcs in the tower who recovered his body.

No, I'm just saying that Frodo did fail in his mission. He got to the cracks of doom and then claimed the ring for himself. If Gollum hadn't bitten off Frodo's finger, and fallen into the pit, chances are, the ring wouldn't have been destroyed. The quest succeeded. Frodo failed.