Love the Game vs. Hate the Greed?

[Filcher]

So per the OP, if someone has the perfect system, selling it would be a greedy money grab? Is this an argument for designers to dumb down their work lest they appear villainous?

 

[Wombat]

Played OD&D.

Dropped out when AD&D "1st ed" came out

Came back for 3e

Dropped out when (well, before, actually) 4e came out

Ask me again around 7th or 8th edition

 

[Arnwyn]

If 5th Ed. came out right now, and it had everything you (personally) ever desired in an RPG would you buy it?

Everything I've ever desired? You mean, the perfect game?

Uh... yes, I would buy it in an instant. (Is this a trick question?)

 

[frankthedm]

Me too.

Then this thread gets forked!
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...read-love-game-vs-hate-greedy-characters.html

 

[Vorput]

Thinking on this more, it occurs to me that everything I'd want in an RPG would include the RPG being free.

Problem solved.

 

[Korgoth]

Assuming it's competitively priced and I can afford it? Of course I would buy it. It has everything I want out of a game.

 

[Korgoth]

This just brought something to mind - if a new game actually has everything you want, in the sense that you'd never need another book or supplement...

... well, in terms of business, that's not good. WotC would get to sell you the game once, and that's it. Good burst, but not a good revenue stream. In terms of business, absolute perfection is not a desired goal.

Man, the corps sure do have you by the short and curlies, brother. They've actually convinced you that it's necessary to the survival of capitalism that you buy a deliberately gimped and inferior product. Someone in some marketing department somewhere deserves a raise.

Suppose a company did produce a game that had everything you want. Now, your tastes could be rarified in the extreme (in which case nothing will keep this from being a niche product), but let's assume that they're not so rarified. OK, you don't have to buy 50 splat books and monster manuals to finally get the stats for all the stuff you want to play with. So where does this group get their revenue stream? Well, they can sell their sterling product to other like-minded folks. Maybe the game will actually catch on and be really popular. Now, they can also sell adventures, settings, ancillary materials, etc., but let's even leave that aside. Let's just focus on the core product: a good core product can eventually take the market by storm and more and more people will buy it.

There are two ways to go here: try to get a core product with a decent following and then sink your fangs into that following and drain it white. Or, make a core product that is so good and that you have so much confidence in that you keep expanding the customer base with that product's quality. I think the former is a cynical strategy.

Now, it also goes to show why role playing games, which may never have the market of some more popular products (there are only so many nerds on a given inhabited planet), are better suited to a hobbyist-merchant model than a corporate model. Corporations aren't generally concerned about the long run, so even if your product will eventually take over the world market, a corp often cares only about the next few quarters or so (or the duration of a given exec's tenure, so it's sort of like Plato's Ship of State).

Myself, I would advise any producer, hobbyist or corporate, to make the best product possible at all times. You'll always find something more to sell. If nothing else, the strength of your fantasy game will drive sales of your next trick, the space game (or whatever). You can always make a new product and let the quality of the previous work be your main salesman.

 

[Ktulu]

For me, the answer lies in how happy I am with the current product. Currently, 4e does everything I want in an RPG (minus the druid, but we're now only 3 months from that happening).

If I wasn't 100% happy with it, and WotC said, "Umm, we fixed all those things you didn't like", then I'd consider it. However, I have plenty of games I can run with 4e for a long time to come.

 

[El Mahdi]

*snip*

I guess I missed the part about "greed" in the OP (I was tired when I read it and posted).

If I thought that a new edition was being released, simply for "Greed"s Sake: NO, I wouldn't buy it, even if it was a good game.

However, some qualifiers:

I don't believe that 4E was made simply to make more money (i.e. Greed driven).

I believe that 4E was made for multiple reasons, one of which was to reinvigorate their revenue stream. To me, that's not greed, just smart business.

The other reasons 4E was made was to improve some of the shortfalls associated with 3E (quick and easy learning curve for new players, ease of prep and execution for DM's, clean up/simplify/repair wonky and overcomplicated rules, etc.). I feel 4E was very successful in some of those, but the approach taken created other problems IMO (oversimplified, more restrictive, less options, lessening of versimilitude, etc.).

For me 3.5E (well, more accurately my "houseruled" 3.5E), better fits my game style and preference. I'm now very invested in it. So, even if WoTC released a perfect or nearly perfect set of rules, based on my gaming preferences, I still might not buy it (although I may just be curious enough to see what it has and buy it anyways).

If a 5th Edition were released today, simply in order to try and win over those who didn't switch to 4E (in other words, in order to get their money, i.e. "Greed"), I highly doubt it would be a very good rules set, and probably not worth the money. That right there would probably make it an exercise in futility.

But, bottom line, whether a large percentage of the gaming community has switched to the new edition or not, it seems people are buying material anyways. Some of the most telling polling datas (IMO) that came up on all of these recent ENWorld polls, is even though more ENWorlders haven't switched (or switched and went back) than have switched, more than 80% have bought the 4E core books, and over 60% are continuing to buy 4E material (adventures, supplements, DDI, etc.). So, as far as WoTC is concerned, do they really care whether people have switched if they are buying new 4E material anyways?


So in short:

• If a "perfect" 5E was released today, would I buy it? MAYBE

• If a 5E, purely motivated by "Greed" were released today, would I buy it? Probably, NO. But mostly because I feel such an edition would probably suck, thereby negating the "perfect" aspect.

• If a "perfect" 5E was released today, even if motivated solely by "Greed", would I buy it? Again, MAYBE.

• Did the poll need a "Maybe" or "Other" voting option? YES

 

[Filcher]

Korgoth,

You are arguing two opposing points. Can't have it both ways.

First, you make the case that planned obsolescence is a corporate tool to get us to keep buying worthless crap. But then you make the case that...

Corporations aren't generally concerned about the long run..

By your logic, a corp interested only in the next quarters returns wouldn't engage in planned obsolescence, since that in a nutshell is a long term sales plan.

So which is it? Do they aim for long term returns using "breakable" product, or do they go for the quick buck?