Low Cover

[Quidam]

Fifteen feet away is a goblin who is taking cover behind a barrel. He gets cover from my ranged attacks, but do I get cover from his javelin throwing? My DM ruled 'No', but I pointed to the 'Low Cover' rules as the mechanic for that situation, and a barrel isn't low for a Small creature. He stood by his ruling but we agreed to toss it up on the boards for some clarification.

Sorry I don't have frank's sprite-fu.

 

[Thanee]

The rule you mentioned yourself...

Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he’s closer to the obstacle than his target.

Bye
Thanee

 

[frankthedm]

Fifteen feet away is a goblin who is taking cover behind a barrel. He gets cover from my ranged attacks, but do I get cover from his javelin throwing? My DM ruled 'No', but I pointed to the 'Low Cover' rules as the mechanic for that situation, and a barrel isn't low for a Small creature. He stood by his ruling but we agreed to toss it up on the boards for some clarification.

Sorry I don't have frank's sprite-fu.

Using only...

Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height)

..you are right.

But since a barrel is close to the shape of a pillar this is an example of of a "thin obstacle and cover"

Slender Pillar
These pillars are only a foot or two across, so they don’t occupy a whole square. A creature standing in the same square as a slender pillar gains a +2 cover bonus to Armor Class and a +1 cover bonus on Reflex saves (these bonuses don’t stack with cover bonuses from other sources). The presence of a slender pillar does not otherwise affect a creature’s fighting space, because it’s assumed that the creature is using the pillar to its advantage when it can. A typical slender pillar has AC 4, hardness 8, and 250 hit points.

And the goblin's size in comparison to the "thin pillar" can easily invoke...

Varying Degrees of Cover
In some cases, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies. Furthermore, improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Hide checks

 

[Quidam]

Thanks, frank, it's the Slender Pillar rules that we missed. I can't help but wonder, though- if a goblin is small enough to take advantage of Improved Cover, would the barrel really be considered a Slender Pillar? I guess size doesn't really matter in that case.

Where is that Slender Pillar rule found? I just checked the SRD and couldn't find it listed in there.

And, Thanee, I got that part of the Low Cover rules, but was under the opinion that the barrel was not 'Low' in comparison to the goblin- significantly more than half its height.

 

[Bad Paper]

Slender Pillar

yeah, I've never seen this rule before either

 

[Legildur]

yeah, I've never seen this rule before either

So it wasn't just me?

 

[Abraxas]

DMG p64

 

[Quidam]

DMG p64

Thanks, Abraxas! Just the citation needed.

Looking around there, though, I might be more inclined to rule a barrel is more similar to a pedastal than to a pillar. But that'd be the DM's call. I'll point mine to this thread and see what he thinks.

 

[Mistwell]

I've never read that rule before either. Cool!

I don't think improved cover would apply in the case of a goblin and a barrel. If the barrel was enough to qualify for improved cover with regard to a small creature occupying a full 5' square, then it wasn't slender enough to qualify as a slim pillar I think. Though I see the point that slim pillar = 2 foot and not enough to take up the entire space.