Low Damage, High HP ... How is this "Faster"?

[JesterOC]

The down side is they've gone completely power-mad about this. Let's face it after that ONE REALLY powerful spell the wizards gets daily, it'll be "magic missile, magic missile, magic missile, magic missile, magic missile, magic missile, magic missile, magic missile, " until the sun comes up or the cows come home.... *yawn*

Well if you don't like Magic Missile, then use a crossbow, at least you have a choice. And come on! At-will Mage hand, Light, and Ghost Sound just does won't get boring!

I loved Dizlag's post about a player using Mage Hand to hold a sunrod perpetually. That is just cool stuff. I’ll take that character over any 1st level Magic-User (oops Wizard) character I ever played.

 

[Patlin]

Also, I may be wrong on this, but doesn't the whole attribute modifier get a +1 per 2 levels? Maybe only attacks do, but if there's another 10 points of attribute modifier (each?) due solely to level, that'll up the numbers a lot.

This seems to disproven on review of the monster/rules list compilation pdf. Apparently, your non level-adjusted stat modifier continue to apply to damage.

 

[Jhulae]

<snipped for brevity>

The rounds themselves go faster. Instead of having to wait 10-15 minutes for your next turn (something that constantly happens in big battles with characters that have multiple attacks, or long spell lists, etc.), your turn comes back around quicker, allowing you to feel more a part of the action.

I don't care if the battles themselves last the same length of time, as long as I'm not just sitting around playing Brain Age or whatever on my DS waiting for my next turn.

 

[IceFractal]

This thread must have rolled a 20 to stabilize, because it's back from the dead!

One thing I wanted to mention is that when I said assassination/ambush type manuevers are a lot harder, I wasn't talking just in terms of literal assassinations (although those certainly are harder in 4E, with the mosquito-bite CdG), but also about general use of stealth and "getting the drop on people" in gameplay.


In 3E, if you managed, by stealth and effective scouting, to completely get the drop on a group of foes, you had several advantages:
1) Could pre-buff with spells.
2) Got a free round of attacks before they could react.
3) If you acted fast enough, you could prevent them raising an alarm.

In 4E, #1 is pretty much gone, and #2 is much less of an advantage (being one round ahead is vital when battles last 3-5 rounds, but much less so when they last 10-15 rounds). #3 will also be much harder, as the odds of dropping a non-minion in one round, even with the entire party focusing on it, are slim.


So we go from getting the drop giving you a significant edge that could decide a previously even battle, to it giving you a minor advantage, easily overshadowed by luck in rolling. It may suit "kick in the door" tactics just fine, but it does make the "ninja" types pretty irrelevant.

 

[Jhulae]

This thread must have rolled a 20 to stabilize, because it's back from the dead!

19 or 20! There's a 10% chance to stabilize, not just 5%.

 

[ff6shadow]

Jhulae, that was 3.5. Clearly a thread on 4th should use 4th's rules for stabilization.

 

[Nytmare]

1) Could pre-buff with spells.

In 4E, #1 is pretty much gone...

Now that I think about it, will prebuffs be gone? Or are we pretty sure that all buff-styled effects are "whomp on a badguy to give one of your allies a bonus."

If we end up with a straight up buff ability, is there any reason why you couldn't say that the encounter starts the moment that you're hiding around the corner from the enemy camp psyching yourself up to murdalize them?

 

[Patlin]

Now that I think about it, will prebuffs be gone? Or are we pretty sure that all buff-styled effects are "whomp on a badguy to give one of your allies a bonus."

If we end up with a straight up buff ability, is there any reason why you couldn't say that the encounter starts the moment that you're hiding around the corner from the enemy camp psyching yourself up to murdalize them?

I think the prevailing impression is that most buffs will require a minor action to retain, making multiple buffs a la 3e more or less prohibited, and even a single buff somewhat costly.

 

[pgmason]

I wouldn't be surprised if at higher levels there are some rituals which give a buff effect to participants, or something. The cleric providing a blessing before the battle and so on (which was very common in medieval warfare - just in D&D would have a mehcanical effect).

 

[Cadfan]

(1) From the only example of play (ie, 1st level), he is wrong regarding decreased damage.

Your analysis is correct, but level 1 seems to have received a disproportionate boost. While we don't know the exact power level of higher level characters, by comparing lower and higher level monsters you can see that damage seems to scale more slowly, and characters eventually end up doing less damage than 3e counterparts of similar level.

Essentially, things seem more frontloaded at level one, but with smaller boosts per level.