Low level parties and dungeon encounters

[victordoom]

Ive played 3rd edition since it came out and have really enjoyed it.However its now my turn to DM,and I had a few questions that I'd like some comments on. The party consist of 3 elves(Wizard,driud,and fighter)and 3 humans (priest, barbarian,and ranger).
their fisrt 2 adventures went well and consisted of encounters above their level.Ranging from 2-4.the party had ample time to rest between encounters (they traveling across country).the encounters were a little tough but everyone made it through, more importantly the felt challanged) However their last encounter had them facing an Ogre and 4 orcs. the characters had the advantage of surprise and won the encounter with 2 of the pcs going down in the combat.(they recovered with the help of healing spells and potions)Everyone thought it was great climax, but I was a little put off by the way things unfolded.the characters literally took out the orcs on the first round with no losses.At this point I was thinking I should have made the encounter a little tougher,then before I knew it the ogre had put 2 characters(the ranger and driud) out of commision.The wizard had no spells left and the priest was hurt .At this point I was thinking sheesh I've done in my players.On the next round three of the characters killed the ogre before he could raise his axe.
After the gaming seession one the players said he loved it and wondered about how the ogre could haved killed anyone of the charcters with one blow.In truth I hadn't given this any thought to it and as I pondered this some more I also realized that the characters had felled the beast easily once they concentrated on him.
Doesn't seem all that balanced does it? Now my delima,I wish to run the party through a dungeon with about 20 rooms and 15 encounters.The problem is I don't want them to hafta go in and out of the dungeon and rest 10 times.They are all now 2 level.Time is an issue because they most stop a priest of Bane from some ritual by a certain time.Sides I always hated having to rest just to recover spells and hit points.At such a low level what type of opponants do I provide to give the party a challange but not weaken them to where they can't fight the finale battle against a group of 4 npc that will become the major villians of this campaign.Everytime I try to stock the dungeon I run into the same problem, either the encounters are too easy and the party makes with little or no effort or by time the get the last encounter they get swamped because theyved used all their resources.Any Ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Thanee]

How about this:

Let them find a wand of cure light wounds, maybe not fully charged, but with 20 charges left or something.

Make sure, they know, that time is of the essence and that they cannot rest. Make also sure, that they know a little about their enemy beforehand, at least if it will be a tough opponent, so they can spare some of their resources (which will make the preceding encounters tougher for them, since they can't just blast away at their leisure).

You can throw a few tough encounters and many easy to challenging encounters at them then.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Doc Century]

Let them find a wand of cure light wounds, maybe not fully charged, but with 20 charges left or something.

Thanee has a good suggestion here. Not just necessarily a wand of cure light wounds, but also potions of healing and scrolls of various spells as well. The spellcasters are bound to run out of offensive and utilitarian magic, especially if they go into the dungeon with little preparation. Some well-placed treasure of this nature every so often allows the party to heal up a little, and the scrolls would allow your spellcasters to have a few extra "rounds" of ammunition. Just remember that some of this stuff should be in the hands of the bad-guys, who should get a chance to use it themselves. Whatever the baddies can't use (probably because they are dead) falls into the hands of the PCs.

Doc

 

[Aaron2]

Don't let them see you sweat.

Remember, just because the party kills the bad guys without anyone dying doesn't mean that the encounter was too easy. The point of early encounters is to get the players to waste spells and magic items. I once had my players burn a potion of invisibility and two smokesticks just because of two commoners (one was a non-combatant). If the party thinks the bad guys are tough they'll waste resources killing them, leaving them weaker when the real enemy is encountered. Judicious use of leveled monsters helps here.


For this reason its sometimes easier for a party to defeat a known tough enemy (such as your 4 orcs & ogre) rather than several potentially weak encounters. When your players fought the Ogre they knew they were in danger and didn't screw around (judging by their killing 4 orcs in one round). The worst thing for a party to do is hold back magic items and spells because they think they will easily defeat their enemy. That's when the Goblin Ftr4 will make the most difference.

Aaron

 

[Bass Puppet]

Ok, here is my 2 cents and I hope it is helpfull.

With my players, I encourage them to THINK. I understand that is is the game of "Heroes" but that doesn't mean you just bust down a door and charge in. I believe I am fair, and I think I have proven that to my players several times. With that in mind, when they die because of a "Lucky Roll" or a "Bad Decision" on their part, they don't blame me. This is a game, monsters die all the time, players dies sometimes. Instead of giving them a Wand or a Scroll at low levels (Which in fact won't help them if a Ogre with one blow is killing your Players and this will start them off with a bad habit of realying on magic Items instead of their Brain), have them use there Heal skill more often. Add some herbs from the local area to add a couple of more HP and they should be fine. Magic Items should be a reward, not a tool that is relyed on.

There are alot of DM's out there who like to please there players a little to often. In this case you are going to be at the mercy of your players. Let your players know that it is you (The DM) vs. them (The Character). They should appreciate the challenge ONLY if you are fair.

I hope this helps and Good Gaming.

 

[Darkness]

What kinds of creatures do you intend to put into this dungeon - e.g., humanoids, ogres, undead, etc.?

 

[Frostmarrow]

Usually the monsters I send at the party are not the full force. There are often stragglers to arrive later. If the initial encounter turned out to be a walk over I throw the reinforcements at them before they get a chance to heal. If it was a difficult encounter the characters will discover that more monsters are on their way and they can make a discreet withdrawal. The nice thing about reinforcements is that they arrive at the highest possible initiative. This alone can shift the balance of an encounter. (Sometimes even the characters receive some well needed assistace in this way.)

 

[BluWolf]

Frostmarrow makes an excellent point and this is something i have used often.

Depending on the type of dungeon, I try and design them logically without regard to the party composition. If its a "dead" dungeon (cut off from the world or a tomb) logic is not really all that much of a concern.

But if its a "living" dungeon (stronghold, hideout, hidden temple) then you have to design it logically with consideration for the lead bad guy and what sort of forces he would have at his dispossal. How they eat, where they sleep....yadayada yada.

With this in mind, various areas of the dungeon will only have so many guards. By definition, if the the first three rooms have 80% of the forces protecting them, they are not guards they are alert and proactive defenders.

So if your bad guys don't know they good guys are coming, ensure that the first few "rooms" are guarded not defended.

Then you keep the encounters logical. If the party uses stealth and tactics, they may be able to get in with minimal risk. If they tip thier hand, reinfrocements can start arriving.

I will someitmes use the reinforcements trick somewhat like a club, "hey, guys look at all those goblins coming down the hall! Maybe we should fall back?"

 

[Schmoe]

People have already posted some excellent advice. You should also consider the guides to Encounter Level provided by the DMG. A party of six 2nd level characters should be able to face four encounters of EL 3 before having to rest. If you keep this in mind, you should be able to construct the dungeon.

If you want the party to face more than four encounters, make many of the encounters have a lower EL (1 or 2). Remember, at this level even two orcs can do damage or cause a spell to be used, which depletes party resources. If the party does incredibly well due to luck, don't despair. Luck will eventually turn against them, and a duplicate encounter further down the line may prove to be much more challenging.

In your case, I would advise reducing the number of encounters slightly, to about ten. Then have about eight encounters with EL of 1 or 2, have two encounters of EL 3, and have your final showdown be an EL of 4 or 5.

Good EL 1 or 2 encounters could be:

2-3 orcs
4-6 tiny spiders
4-6 small centipedes
6-9 kobolds
3-5 skeletons
2-3 zombies
1 ghoul
1 darkmantle
1 small elemental
1 ogre
1 giant lizard
2-3 human warriors
1 1st or 2nd level cleric

... and many, many more. Hope this helps!

 

[Darkness]

Usually the monsters I send at the party are not the full force. There are often stragglers to arrive later. If the initial encounter turned out to be a walk over I throw the reinforcements at them before they get a chance to heal. If it was a difficult encounter the characters will discover that more monsters are on their way and they can make a discreet withdrawal. The nice thing about reinforcements is that they arrive at the highest possible initiative. This alone can shift the balance of an encounter. (Sometimes even the characters receive some well needed assistace in this way.)

That's a very neat method, Frostmarrow! Consider it stolen!