Low Magic: Alternatives to "every other" spellcasting levels?

I'm giving my own system one last OGL-compliancy scrub (yes, I'm that paranoid, but that's another topic...), but here are some "easy imports" that don't require system overhauls to apply...

Sorcerers, Bards and other Spontaneous Casters (such as Green Ronin's Witch Class): They don't spontaneously produce spells, but must learn their spells as a Wizard. However, once learned, they retain the spell indefinately as a Core Sorcerer.
The only difference is thematic, as the class is mechanically unchanged.

-Option: Alternate Spell Lists between Wizards & Sorcerers. Best explained by examplifying my own campaign: One branch of Sorcerer practice lore taught by Genies and are Elementalists, while another branch study the teachings of a deity of death, gaining the Necromancer Spell List from Green Ronin's Secret Colledge of Necromancy, and so forth. Channelers (another S&M conversion) use the standard Wizard List. Channelers are described as being scholarly scientists, while Sorcerers see magic as philosophical art; a Channeler with a book of Sorcery isn't going to benefit much from it.

Spell Research: I'm using a conversion of the Library/Laboratory rules from 2E's Spells & Magic with modifications inspired by Fantasy Flights Spells & Spellcraft and Mongoose's Quintessential Wizard. For a straight d20 option, I recommend FF's book (no offense on QW, I just found it to be better in other areas). Apply these rules (or similar) instead of the suggested method of assumption of access recommended in the PH. With spontaneous development of spells is removed via the Sorcerer/Bard, and removing the other assumption-based rule of a Wizard gaining 2 Free Spells per Level, the influx of spells from Level gain is curbed slightly.
This option (alone) doesn't remove any spells from the PCs, but it requires downtime and/or reasonable in-game justifaction to be obtained. This allows the GM to temper the addition of new spells, but allows the PCs to pursue spells as they wish (admittedly, downtime and opportunities, such as finding or inhereting a spellbook, need to be supplied by the GM every 2-3 levels to be fair to the players, but works well when applied correctly). This also works best when spellcasting NPCs are also rare, as it's easily foiled by having too many found spellbooks.

-Option: Bump read magic to 3rd Level, making the character's dependant on the ability to speak/read Draconic to learn spells at Low Levels. Alternately, remove the "common language" theme of Draconic, making each spell written in the native tongue of the writer (or other language that they chose) and bump comprehend languages to 2nd.

Reduced Item Creation: The Item Creation Feats are only about process and methodology. Each item to be created must be independantly researched in the same manner as a spell. Don't have the Feat, can't research the item; don't research the item, can't make it. Once made, it's made; no upgrading the same item.

-Option: Sympathetic Item Creation, being that a spellcaster must craft an item by their own hands in order to enhance it with magic. This has an extra cost in Skill Points (Craft, possibly others), and is applied best in campaigns that offer alternative means of gaining extra Skill Points.

-Option: Power Components, as described briefly in the DMG, but to date best expanded on 2E's Spells & Magic.

Obviously, there's more, but the rest is lengthy (new Core Class, Spell Points/Fatigue Stages, etc.), while what's above is easily ported into the game as basic concepts.

Mage Born Characters: Character beginning at 1st Level as an Arcane Caster are automatically considered to be Mage Born, but a Feat is required in order to become an Arcane Caster later.
-Option: This may be a "Birth Feat", gained during Character Creation only, or it may be "discovered" in-game that the PC is a mageling.

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Now, there's a few other ideas I've seen here and there...

No Spell Scaling: Spells are what they are at the level they are obtainable (ex: fireball doesn't do more then 5 die of damage).
-Option: Allow Empower Spell to cause scaling when applicable (ex: 5th Level fireball causes 9 die of damage)

One of Ken Hood's methods, "The Rule of Odds": When ever a die is used to determine the effects of a spell, all odds on the dice are read as "1".

Less flashy by Specialization: All Arcane Casters are Specialized, with Evocation as an Opposed School.

Ability Score Reduction: 1 point of Ability Reduction per Spell Level, applied to Physical Stats as chosen by the Caster at the time of casting (points from spells can be divided amongst the other Ability Scores, allowing a caster to not be nailed by a single 9th Level Spell, but two 9th Level Spells aren't so easy to shake off). Ability Scores return at a rate of 1 per hour per Ability Score. A little book-keepy, but effective at keeping spellcasters from "unloading" a lot of high level spells in a short period of time.

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If you are going rare but potent, than what you want ideally is something that will tone Spellcasters down until such a time as the other PCs are gaining some of the more potent magic items available to them. For example, Spellcasters in my game progress in power slowly until around 8th-12th Level (using a combination of mechanical and RP-based methods, such as Feats that reduce Fatigue combined with spellbooks found in ancient ruins that contain rare or forgotten lore, and Guild/Group memberships that supply a library and laboratory or, alternately, the spellcaster gains their own library/laboratory), after which they begin to climb upwards in power until near Core potency. At about the same time, the other PCs, who have had little to no magic on-hand, start acquiring items that (in a standard game) are more suited for 17th+ characters (becoming "signature" items that they retain for the rest of the campaign).

This in mind, determine the point in which the other PCs will begin to gain items, and then add the features that puts spellcaster power on a similar curve. Alternately, allow the spellcasters to set the pace: As they begin to overcome their early limitations (by whatever means provided) and gain potency, introduce the items that allow the other PCs to keep up.
 
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Bendris Noulg said:
Now, there's a few other ideas I've seen here and there...

No Spell Scaling: Spells are what they are at the level they are obtainable (ex: fireball doesn't do more then 5 die of damage).
-Option: Allow Empower Spell to cause scaling when applicable (ex: 5th Level fireball causes 9 die of damage)

One of Ken Hood's methods, "The Rule of Odds": When ever a die is used to determine the effects of a spell, all odds on the dice are read as "1".

Less flashy by Specialization: All Arcane Casters are Specialized, with Evocation as an Opposed School.

Ability Score Reduction: 1 point of Ability Reduction per Spell Level, applied to Physical Stats as chosen by the Caster at the time of casting (points from spells can be divided amongst the other Ability Scores, allowing a caster to not be nailed by a single 9th Level Spell, but two 9th Level Spells aren't so easy to shake off). Ability Scores return at a rate of 1 per hour per Ability Score. A little book-keepy, but effective at keeping spellcasters from "unloading" a lot of high level spells in a short period of time.

Jeez, did the guys that came up with these variants hate casters all that much?

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Bendris Noulg said:
If you are going rare but potent, than what you want ideally is something that will tone Spellcasters down until such a time as the other PCs are gaining some of the more potent magic items available to them.

In most games I've played in, casters were pretty lackluster untill 5th level or later. Actually I'll go with really lackluster. Does a 1st level wizard really need to be toned down? fear the 1d4+1 magic missile of doom! :)
 
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ph0rk said:
Jeez, did the guys that came up with these variants hate casters all that much?
I wouldn't say they hated them; after all, they are still part of the game. And besides, the "Less Flashy" option is more targeting a group of spells rather than a class or type of class.

Personally, I wouldn't consider any of them to be bad ideas unless combined with bad GMing (i.e., casters are reduced in power but no one else is). If the rest of the game is scaled accordingly, then there isn't really an issue.

In most games I've played in, casters were pretty lackluster untill 5th level or later. Actually I'll go with really lackluster.
Depends on what you would consider "lackluster". However, 5th Level is when 3rd Level spells get introduced and the boom-boom factor begins to increase dramatically.

Does a 1st level wizard really need to be toned down? fear the 1d4+1 magic missile of doom! :)
Hey, man... One good roll and that thing will take out your average Kobold.:p
 
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Remathilis said:
Hello

So, lets say I was looking into running a lower magic game, but didn't want the 10 level max or "every other level" spellcasting rules. More specifically, I'm looking for a way to limit some of the outragous super power, but still give dedicated spellcasters the possibility of being one for all twenty levels.

What are some of the alternatives to "every other level" and still be low magic?
D00d, just drop wizards, clerics, sorcs, bards and druids as PC classes. It'll be a lot less work, be more honest, plus retain the "magic is mysterious" hoo-ha.
 
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Remathilis said:
Hello

So, lets say I was looking into running a lower magic game, but didn't want the 10 level max or "every other level" spellcasting rules. More specifically, I'm looking for a way to limit some of the outragous super power, but still give dedicated spellcasters the possibility of being one for all twenty levels.

What are some of the alternatives to "every other level" and still be low magic?
Just a small balance: have all arcane spells - including those of bards and sorcerors - based on intelligence, and keep divine spells based on wisdom. Make the saving throws for the spells based on charisma. (Rationalisation for this: it requires int or wis to cast spells, and force of personality (ie charisma) determines how powerful the spells are once cast). Casters with low charisma would therefore have spells that are easy to shrug off.

This means that casters would generally strive to have two high stats and bring them more into line with non-spellcasters, who often need two or more high stats to survive effectively.

Eg. To cast a fourth-level spell requires 14 intelligence for arcane spells, or 14 wisdom for divine spells. The saving throw would be equal to 10 + charisma modifier. A caster with, say, 8 charisma would have a save equal to 10-1 plus spell level
 

Remathilis said:
Hello

So, lets say I was looking into running a lower magic game, but didn't want the 10 level max or "every other level" spellcasting rules. More specifically, I'm looking for a way to limit some of the outragous super power, but still give dedicated spellcasters the possibility of being one for all twenty levels.

What are some of the alternatives to "every other level" and still be low magic?

It really depends on what outragous super powers are. Some would view that as some or all of: mind control, death magic, blasty evocations, raising the dead, divination or teleportation? Guess it comes down to where magic is a 'problem'.

Can you clarify which bits you don't like/want?

It depends on how drastic a change you want. A possible option is to start with a different system that has the correct level/feel of magic.


IMO, X level max is the most 'sensible' and 'easily balanced' way of chopping off all magic above level Roundup(X/2) ... but it does remove that 'iconic lure of 20 levels' as the other thread said.

Edit: I mean talismanic lure... http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=80562
 
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Remathilis said:
Hello
What are some of the alternatives to "every other level" and still be low magic?

I read the thread and thought, who would want to play in *THAT* game?

Here are my ideas.

1. Make it very very hard for wizards to learn spells from other spell books or scrolls.

2. Give out fewer scrolls, and magic items that go boom.

3. Take away the Scribe Scroll feat from wizards, replace it with a free feat. Also, give sorcerers a free feat at level 1, it won't break your game, I promise.

4. Make it more prohibitively expensive to make magic items (and introduce a feat to lower the cost).

5. For divine casters, place restrictions on the spells they can cast. For example on holy days (every xth day, on holidays, special occasions, etc.) they can only cast spells that match their alinment, so only GOOD spells, or only EVIL spells.

6. Introduce "tainted" spells that have real costs to casting them. Guess what, you *FINALLY* got that Summon Monster 5 spell scribed into your spell book. But everytime you cast it, there is a chance (d%) of the spell's "author" teleporting in and having words with the person that "stole" his work.

7. No magic shops. Make very few NPCs with the feat (from above) so they have the "gift" to make magic items, and they *COST*.

8. Simply eliminate some spells. No teleport. No haste. No silence.

9. Break magic items frequently enought that players really protect them. Make sunder a common tactic. Make laval salamanders that melt even magic weapons that strike them -- when you have level 10 fighter still carrying around a MW longsword for all those mundane creatures, you will know that you are making progress.

Basically, with rare exceptions, the only spells the wizards will have are the one they get for leveling up. If you hold them to that list you will be surprized how limited they can be. I think that sorcerers already have a limitation, spells known, that keep them from being too powerful.

In both of those cases, you eliminate many problem spells, and they "problem" spells they do have you can work around. So your party's sorcerer just learned shapechange. Well, make opponents where shapechange is less of an issue.

I guess my POV is that yeah fireball is a big spell, but if you look at the damage, 8d6 at level 8, average 28, save for half and that doesn't even take into consideration the number of creatures that might have SR, or evasion and you don't really, imho, have a game stopper. In short I don't really see a problem. Now, I can see (and have seen) a problem where the 6th level wizard simply reaches into his vest of many pockets to instantaneously retrieve one of his 42 scrolls of empowered fireball scribed by a tenth level wizard and he easily makes his skill check to activate it even though it is a higher level because he is wearing his codpiece of magical enhancement and his headband of encreased cranial volume, that magage to both work on at the same time because the first increases his spellcraft skill and the later decreases the DC, oh and they are both slotless items. So what you end up with is a still fully charged wizard that is actually happier because that scroll was the one that used to have 7 spells on it and it was just taking up space.

So, short answer: change as little as possible, but put your greatest changes in spell availability and item aquisition.

At level 10 and your fighter is still using that +1 scimitar, imho, is low magic.
 
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Some simple things you can do:

1) Nix the conjuration and evocation schools (with the exception of healing). Also remove the invisibility and flight spells. This will take some of the "flash" out of magic.

2) Reduce all spell save DCs by 2. This will make magic slightly more unreliable.

3) Have prerequsites for spellcasting classes. Before a character can become any class that grants spells at 1st level they must have Spellcasting -2 and Knowledge(Arcana) 2 OR Religion 2. This will delay all enterance into the casting classes for one level.

4) Give all casting classes +1 hit points per level to compensate for all this.

Just my two cents.

-BG

PS I like that "rule of odds" thing though.
 

Remathilis said:
Hello

So, lets say I was looking into running a lower magic game, but didn't want the 10 level max or "every other level" spellcasting rules. More specifically, I'm looking for a way to limit some of the outragous super power, but still give dedicated spellcasters the possibility of being one for all twenty levels.

What are some of the alternatives to "every other level" and still be low magic?

I think that you could axe the standard spellcasting classes from your campaign and utilize the generic Spellcaster from Unearthed Arcana. Yes, this class appears to have a lot of power at first glance, but that is misleading IMO. The generic class only knows the same # of spells as a sorcerer. This spell selection is going to be very thoughtful (and painful :] ) considering that the whole gambit of spells is on the line (healing, combat, defense, utility). The Spellcaster does not possess the Druid wildshape, wizard/sorcerer familiar, wizard specialization, or cleric turn undead abilities. The Spellcaster is a spontaneous caster, so metamagic can be painfull.

You could also just make up a list of all those spells not known in your campaign. That is simple, quick, and to the point. DMs outlaw certain spells all the time in most campaigns.

Or you could make spell categories similar to Arcana Unearthed listing the rarety of certain spells. Any spell listed as uncommon/rare could require special events in order to be learned by any PC spellcaster.

An important consideration has to be magic items. They should be rare but meaningful in a low magic campiagn.

You can always combine all of this into 1 package too.
 

Sanity mechanic! Yes, go ahead and cast powerful spells.. but not very often, or you're risking becoming an NPC.

-- N
 

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