"low" magic campaign using D&D rules

Najo said:
* make magic items and spells special and mysterious again.

They never were, at least for me and every single player I know. its something I've only heard on message boards. Anyone who played 1e by the rules, ran published modules, and used the treasure tables knows how hipocritical the authors were when they said magic was rare. By the time you were 5th level, you were DRIPPING with items.

I am looking to get the feeling of magic being wondrous and special back into standard D&D, where the common folk are uneasy about it and do not understand it, but the movers and shakers (players included) can still do what they normally do in a 3.5 D&D campaign.

These statements are kind of odd. You are making it special for non-players... to restore an NPC's sense of wonder? Thats kind of like rolling diplomacy checks for NPC husbands and wives with one another when the players arent around. If you want it to be special, have them go nuts when the players cast whatever spell. Thats really all you need to do.

Low magic with PC casters doesnt work IMO. Theres magic every single day in that case. PC wizards bend the laws of physics more often than they poop.

Really, low magic with PC casters is even more of a "hose the fighter" situation. You get to be Jimmy Olson, they get to be Superman in a world ill equipped to deal with their powers.
 

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DM-Rocco said:
A simple way to do rare but powerful magic is to have the PCs roll d100% to see if they can even be a spell caster. Say they only have a 25% chance of having a calling to be a spellcaster.

Pretty bad advice, considering most players arent playing a random character, but a specific NPC. You dont roll personality, hair color etc. You get to decide who your childhood friends were, what your characters parents did for a living, etc. If you dont want PC's to be casters, dont let them be casters.
 


Brother MacLaren said:
Like 3d6 in order for stats? (Or, really, any die-rolling method)

Sure. If I want to be a ranger, and I roll 9, 12, 13, 16, 14 10 for stats (sdciwch) I'm not a very good ranger. I think thats the reason D&D moved to a "arrange to taste" method later.
 


ehren37 said:
They never were, at least for me and every single player I know. its something I've only heard on message boards....Low magic with PC casters doesnt work IMO. Theres magic every single day in that case...Really, low magic with PC casters is even more of a "hose the fighter" situation.

I was wondering how long it would take for this thread to get derailed.
 

Any random element that dictates what a player can or can't play is always an incredibly bad idea and just plain bad design. No exceptions.

I disagree.

In the Stormbringer RPG, the Chaosium RuneQuest interpretation of Michael Moorcock's Elric books, whether you are capable of spellcasting largely depends upon what race you are.

Race is determined randomly because the player races vary widely in innate power. You only have a 1% chance of being Melnibonean (the most powerful race), or a 2% chance of being Pan Tangian (#2 on the power chart). Similarly, you only have about a 1% chance of being that world's equivalent of a Neandertal.

Bad design? No- it accurately depicts the source material and helps preserve game balance.
 

Dannyalcatraz said:
I disagree.

In the Stormbringer RPG, the Chaosium RuneQuest interpretation of Michael Moorcock's Elric books, whether you are capable of spellcasting largely depends upon what race you are.

Race is determined randomly because the player races vary widely in innate power. You only have a 1% chance of being Melnibonean (the most powerful race), or a 2% chance of being Pan Tangian (#2 on the power chart). Similarly, you only have about a 1% chance of being that world's equivalent of a Neandertal.

Bad design? No- it accurately depicts the source material and helps preserve game balance.

I have to disagree -- that is terrible game design and doesn't preserve game balance in a meaningful and fair way. Accuracy to the source material is secondary to the fact that it is a game. If one wants absolute accuracy to the source material, one should just read the books.

It doesn't preserve game balance because one player is often going to end up rolling well, most players will get an average result, and one player will often get a sub-par result due to the random die roll and get a character that isn't very fun to play because it gets outclassed by everyone else. The argument that "true role-players don't care and can still have fun with it" doesn't hold any water to me. Most players aren't likely to have fun with it -- especially not for any great length of time -- and once out of high school and college, available gaming time tends to drop dramatically and it's a really crappy use of limited leisure time to play a character that isn't fun.

I don't even like the standard 3e method of rolling characters (4d6, drop the lowest, arrange as desired) because inevitably once player will roll something like 17, 17, 16, 14, 12, 12 while another rolls a 14, 12, 12, 10, 10, 8. Player B decides to make a Fighter, but depending on arrangement of score, Player A can make a character of virtually any other class and be a better fighter than the Fighter for the first few levels, plus have all these other nifty abilities. If Player A is a Cleric, Druid, Rogue, or Bard he may be a better fighter than the Fighter for even longer. So the rules state that you have to have at least one score of 13 or higher with a net +1 or higher modifier, and many DMs will say that you need at least one score of 16 or higher with a +4 overall modifier or what have you. Or let players roll X number of sets of scores and pick one of them. It's not really "random" anymore, and what it really comes down to is that players like "random" character generation only when it gives them something cool or powerful. :cool:

When players get stuck playing characters they don't really want to play because they rolled poorly, the most common results are either disinterest in the game or active attempts to get the character killed off so they can try again -- although I really don't understand the DM logic that requires a player to play a character that he or she doesn't want to play and won't allow him or her to create a new character unless the current one gets killed.

Game balance is not preserved by making the most powerful (and weakest) character options obtainable only by an extremely unlikely result of a random roll. It rewards and penalizes players for an action that they have absolutely no control over, which can only be described as unfair. Random die rolls to determine the outcome of actions are part of the game and I certainly don't think it's unfair if characters are penalized as a result -- in part because the player's decisions usually have some effect on the outcome or in determining whether they need to make a roll in the first place. But to subject something with as long-lasting an effect as basic character generation to the result of random die rolls with wildly varying results? It's a terrible idea, it's terrible game design, and it's not balanced in any way.
 

Slice out most flight magic {air walk, wind walk, phantom steed too], slice out improved invisibility & make teleporting spells only work when cast certain locations {stone circles designed for such]. Reevaluate CRs for flight based monsters that can hit and run with impunity.
 
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Dannyalcatraz said:
Bad design? No- it accurately depicts the source material and helps preserve game balance.

Just because it accurately depicts the source material doesn't make it good design. If that was the setting, I would argue that it's not a good setting for a game. Period.

It's just not fun.
 

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