"low" magic campaign using D&D rules

[Remathilis]

That's good. Makes my complaint moot.

I was in a game where the rules were (pretty much) RAW, but the DM didn't give 2 free spells a level. He thought it was too much. It made everyone who was interested in casting become clerics or sorcerers. He was so angry, he made his gods disappear (no clerical spells) and sorcerers became persecuted (think Salem Witch Hunts). We dropped his game after a while, right around the time he replaced fighter with the NPC warrior (but with d10s) class.

Anyway's moral of my point (and I wasn't aiming for snark) was that it didn't seem fair to single out one class out of 11 just because they have an easily controlable way of spell access.

 

[S'mon]

I don't give any free Wizard spells on levelling, I restrict Clerics to a number of spells known equal to their spells/day. I haven't altered Sorcerors though, compared to Wizards they're pretty weak with inherently very limited spells known.

 

[el-remmen]

That's good. Makes my complaint moot.

I was in a game where the rules were (pretty much) RAW, but the DM didn't give 2 free spells a level. He thought it was too much. It made everyone who was interested in casting become clerics or sorcerers. He was so angry, he made his gods disappear (no clerical spells) and sorcerers became persecuted (think Salem Witch Hunts). We dropped his game after a while, right around the time he replaced fighter with the NPC warrior (but with d10s) class.

Anyway's moral of my point (and I wasn't aiming for snark) was that it didn't seem fair to single out one class out of 11 just because they have an easily controlable way of spell access.

It is important to note that all my house rules are based around getting a set feel, not about just screwing over one class.

And also, if a rule isn't working we discuss it and try to come up with alternative. If there is a disagreement about it among the players, I have final say as DM - but my players trust me - if not they would not play in the games I run.

I mean, what is the worst that can happen if something is too restrictive or too lenient? Things are temporarily wonky, we fix it and move on.

 

[Keldryn]

Accuracy is great if you want to play in that author's setting.

If you don't want to play in that setting, find another game.

Very true. Or if you are adapting a setting to a game, you may need to make allowances here and there due to the fact that it is a game. It sucks if you're playing a Star Wars game, for example, and the GM says "nope, you can't be a Jedi or have Force powers. Luke, Vader, Yoda, and the Emperor are the *only* ones who can."

Of course the SW RPG has also struggled -- in all of its incarnations -- with balancing Jedi and non-Jedi characters. Restricting the group to only one person being allowed to play a Jedi isn't really fair to the other players who want to play one, regardless of how it is determined. The "Knights of the Old Republic" era or prequel era settings probably make for a better game setting than does the time period depicted in the original films.

Did you ever play the game?

Despite what you see as flaws, it was a blast to play for all involved. For several years, in fact. The primary campaign featured 2 PCs on opposite ends of the % rolls out of 8 total PCs...and yet nobody complained about a "subpar" character.

Yes, I did play Stormbringer. My memory is a bit hazy, as this was around 1994-95. I'm not saying that we didn't have fun with it. But I still don't see it as a fair or balanced game design. Paranoia was very random and not well-balanced, but it was a lot of fun. In short bursts.

Just because one player can call on otherworldly beings for help and another can barely stand upright doesn't mean that fun isn't being had. That spellcaster isn't any more durable than anyone else, and is probably less so. And he's glad to have his buddy Oook nearby.

I'm not arguing with that. However, why couldn't the game just allow players to make the characters like that on their own? Yes, spellcasting is exceedingly rare in the setting, but it's not that big of a stretch to say that the three spellcasting PCs are the only individuals in their entire country that can do so.

Try to do everything yourself, you die.

You still needed teamwork.

Pretty much every RPG works like this. Except the previously mentioned Paranoia, of course. But that's the case whether or not character creation is mostly dictated by random die rolls or whether players are allowed to build the characters they want to play.

 

[Keldryn]

If you're taking issue with my statement that magic items were never special, I stand by that. No one I know cheered when they got a spear +1 in 1st edition. You just erased the x2 and wrote x3 on the back of your sheet, and it sat in a bag of holding with tons of other junk you never used. Magic items werent rare, and getting an extra 5% to hit and a +1 to damage never made anyone I've gamed with do backflips of joy. I think people are misremembering that magic items are special, because they want it to be so. Sure, Gygax and company TOLD us they were rare, but they were hippocrates by their own rules. Anyone who generated treasure for a mid level adventure (using the treasure tables they wrote), or ran something they wrote, must have noticed the gobs of magic items sitting in owlbear nests and under bedpans.

That's been my experience as well, right from the beginning some 20 years ago. Most of the people I gamed with had taken turns DMing at one point or another, and magic items were never seen as wondrous or mysterious no matter how much of a background I wrote for them or how I described them or their effects. It always boiled down to players trying to identify which item from the DMG it was by process of elimination. I didn't let players consult a DMG or MM at the table, either... but the classic DMG items are so well-known to D&D players with any experience that you're never going to be able to make the players think they are wondrous. I'd even mix up the powers and such to keep it interesting, but the only time I've ever seen a hint of wonder in players about magic is when they're new to the game.

And with the growing popularity of fantasy novels, fantasy-styled children's books (such as Harry Potter), and fantasy video/computer games, even novice D&D players that I encounter today aren't wowed or mystified by any D&D magic.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just to clarify for a second- it wasn't just the Melniboneans and Pan Tangians who could be spellcaster, its just that they were far and away the best spellcasters.

A spellcaster from one of the lesser races could be dangerous, but his power wouldn't be out of line with his compatriots. A Melnibonean or Pan Tangian spellcaster could be like a 10th level PC adventuring with 1st level ones.

A party of Melniboneans or Pan Tangians would be 1) counter to the setting (they didn't adventure much, and rarely in groups smaller than "armies") and 2)

But by disallowing even the chance of playing one of those races would diminish part of the appeal of the game- one might as well play a core Runequest.

Restricting the group to only one person being allowed to play a Jedi isn't really fair to the other players who want to play one, regardless of how it is determined.

Certainly its fair- its as fair as any other die roll. In Stormbringer, each person has the same 5% chance of playing an elite race or 5% chance of playing one of the "fallen" races.

Regardless of the game, you don't neccessarily get to play the PC you want to play. I can't play a paladin if the party is comprised entirely of PCs who are part of the Assassin's guild.

If I'm playing the original Traveller game, my PC may die during generation (my first one did, as a matter of fact). Stupid die rolls!

I can't play a race with a LA greater than 0 if the DM says the starting party level is 1st. No drow, githzerai, bugbears or minotaurs for me!

I'm not arguing with that. However, why couldn't the game just allow players to make the characters like that on their own? Yes, spellcasting is exceedingly rare in the setting, but it's not that big of a stretch to say that the three spellcasting PCs are the only individuals in their entire country that can do so.

Mainly because the magic of the setting, while rare, was overpowering.

A lesser spellcaster could slowly provide his compatriots with elemental, demonic, or virtuous weapons armor and gear.

A single Pan Tangian or Melnibonean could kit out a party of 6 right out of the gate with enough gear to take on the entire city watch...or summon enough elementals and demons to double party size and quadruple its power.

 

[Keldryn]

I think perhaps one of the best things a DM can do to create a low-magic setting that is well-balanced and believable is to pick one type of magic from the myriad of options in D&D and state that this is how magic works in the world. Most fantasy novels (or films, etc) don't have the obscene number of wildly different types of magic that D&D has.

Choose one of the three types of magic from the Tome of Magic, for example, perhaps expand on it a bit, and tell the players that this is how magic works in the world. I'm not really that familiar with the types of magic in ToM -- essentially because no matter how interesting or flavourful they are, there are already too many different magic systems in D&D -- but if Binding or Truename magic is the only magic in the world then it seems like a lot of the flashier effects aren't going to be possible. There may be greater costs to a magic-using PC. And if you're not having to juggle prepared arcane magic, spontaneous arcane magic, prepared divine magic, spontaneous divine magic, psionics, incarnum (who uses it anyway), the Shadow Weave, wild magic, Warlock invocations, etc. When it's all thrown together, the magic really loses a lot of its flavour and becomes this bland mishmash of vaguely-related magical powers.

Of course, it is my opinion that a D&D campaign works the best (from the point of view of world believability and flavour) when a DM selects a subset of the game to include in the campaign. No game world really needs several dozen sentient humanoid species. If a DM really likes Incarnum, then it probably works best if that is how magic works in the world. Does the game really need both the Sorcerer and the Warlock, which are two different approaches to what is essentially the same concept? Options for character creation are fantastic, but it's really difficult to evoke any sort of strong flavour -- low-magic or otherwise -- if you're assuming that everything published in every D&D books exists in the world. Even just the contents of the first Monster Manual, taken as a whole, leaves me with that bland mish-mash feeling.

So my best suggestion is just to pick the elements of D&D that best fit the low-magic feel that you are going for and decide that the rest of it doesn't exist in the world. You don't really need to change too many rules if you're just omitting certain classes, monsters, spells, or items from the game.

If I want to create a believable low-magic game, I might do the following:

Character Options
- replace the PHB Ranger with the Scout from Complete Adventurer. They fill very similar roles in the party and the Scout drops all of the druidic magic

- Clerics are not simply priests who staff the local temple. To be a Cleric is considered both a blessing and a curse. The Cleric is born with an intrinsic connection to the divine and will usually be guided (directly or indirectly) to his or her destiny. To wield the powers of the divine is an exceeding rare and special privilege, but it is also a responsibility. Clerics are trained in the art of combat (good BAB, heavy armour proficiency, d8 hit die) because they are the agents of the divine in the mortal world, and it is their calling to venture out into the world to defend the followers of their faith and perform epic deeds in the name of their faith.

They may be dedicated to specific gods if that's what floats your boat, but I prefer the more detatched deities that nobody can really say whether or not they exist. Clerics serve a divine cause, whether it be individual gods, a pantheon, or a divine principle. The devoted faithful who staff the churches are just normal, non-magic-wielding humans. If there is a god of war or battle, then the vast majority of followers in his temple are going to be Fighters or Warriors.

- Druids don't really fit into this cultural view of religion as well, so there are no Druids in this world. Or perhaps they are the very rare individuals destined to serve the divinity inherent in nature.

- to be a Paladin is not only a calling, but is also something that one must strive for. Replace the Paladin with a prestige class, either like the Paladin PrC in Unearthed Arcana, or else the Holy Liberator PrC.

- the Bard could be eliminated fairly easily, if you want to get rid of all of the minor spellcasting base classes and leave spellcasting totally the domain of Clerics and Wizards. Or if you like the idea of the magic of song but don't want a spellcasting Bard, Monte Cook's variant Bard from The Book of Eldrich Might II has the ability to use spellsongs that is more flavourful but more restrictive than just casting PHB spells.

- the Monk and all of its pseudo-magical powers will probably not be missed by many, and can easily be dismissed as not culturally appropriate.

- the study of magic can only be undertaken by those who possess an inborn ability to control the arcane energies. This doesn't restrict PC Wizards, but is a story-based way to limit the number of NPC spellcasters. In addition, the study of magic requires many, many years of study and practice under the guidance of an experienced Wizard. A PC can start out his or her career as a Wizard at 1st level, perhaps a bit older than the 15-19 years of age given in the PHB. But unless a PC wants to take 10 years of game time off, he or she cannot take levels of Wizard unless that was his or her class at 1st level. Perhaps waive this restriction for Elves, to suit the flavour of the race, although you may want to drop one of their other abilities.

Wizards will not gain free spells known at each level -- they have to be researched. And Wizard players have to keep track of material components and not just buy a pouch of spell components that is assumed to contain any needed components of 1gp or less in cost. And some of these components may be hard to obtain. If arcane magic requires both an inborn talent and long years of study, you can drop the Sorcerer class as it is not needed.

- weapons and armour of +1 and +2 bonuses are due to craftsmanship and quality of materials, not magic. To enchant a weapon, it must be at least a +3, which sets the costs high enough that there's not going to be that many of them. And instead of trading in a +3 weapon for a +4 one, there are rituals and rare magical components that allow a PC to enhance his or her weapon. Or perhaps they just need to spend XP to improve the weapon, as the bond between the PC and his or her magic weapon grows.

- if PCs don't have the "assumed" stat-enhancing items at a given level, or have lower-plus weapons or armour, then you can assume that as they hit mid-levels they will need to face slightly lower CR encounters than they would normally.

Well, I need to get back to work, but that's how I might start building a low-magic campaign that doesn't really change the existing rules too much -- it leaves out aspects that I don't think fit, but changes as little of what it uses as possible.

 

[IanB]

Be really, really, really careful with encounter balance if you're running a low magic game. In fact if you diverge too far from the magic item levels that the core rules stipulate, you're probably going to have to completely discard the CR system as written. Now, you may have already done that, in which case, go head on.

 

[el-remmen]

What if there were a system by which monsters were given a CR based on the assumption that a party of four had absolutely NO magical items, and instead magical items had a point value wherein a certain number of points (let's say 10) equaled a level's worth of extra power?

This might even be a better way to judge magical items because, for example, a folding boat may cost a buttload of gps (it may not, but I am just basing it on how valuable it would be in my game where it is essentially a unique item) and be difficult to make, but it isn't going to be as useful against a beholder as a lowly dagger +1 would be.

Just an idea I had about 5 minutes ago, so not very fleshed out or thought through, but I thought I'd throw it out there for discussion.

Obviously, re-CRing all the monsters would be a huge undertaking.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

As many have noted, the CRs get a bit off. But perhaps the PCs can have fewer but more powerful magic items than they would otherwise. It's really about level 8-10 where the assumed magic level is high enough that you really notice its absence. So perhaps at around that point the PCs end up on some quests for unique and powerful items.

The fighter has two magic items: the Sun Blade (a unique item in this setting) and the Helm of Truth (True Seeing at will, +4 resistance bonus on Will saves, +2 deflection bonus to AC). By the book, he should have about 49,000 gp worth of stuff at 10th level. In fact, he's got quite a bit more than that, but it's consolidated in two powerful items. And these will have to last him for a few more levels. Same is true for the rest. They're over-equipped in gp value, but only have one or two magic items each. The magic items are powerful enough to be almost awe-inspiring to the characters, but even so are not game-breaking.

The wizard has the (unique) White Robe of the Archmagi and a Ring of Wizardry III.

The cleric has a Staff of Healing that in addition to the normal properties can do Cure Moderate Wounds once per day per person without expending any charges, and can use Heal for 3 charges; the staff recharges 2 charges per day.

The rogue has the Ring of the Wraith, combining the properties of Invisibility, Freedom of Movement, Mind Shielding, and Protection +3.

Given something like this, I think the PCs could do just fine. This is not low-magic-power, but it is low-magic-frequency. These were unique and powerful items that the PCs quested for. The PCs are not laden with magical trinkets.