Low magic Item creation mechanics discussion

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Hello all.
I have an idea that I think would work well in a campaine I frequently run.
It is a setting where magic is not common. (There are wizard guilds, but most are not even known to the public) There still is magic, but I don't want magic to be "Aww its only +1?"
As it stands, I want magic items to be something to fight and die over, and for there to be some reason, mechanically or otherwise, why a wizard doesn't churn out magic items. (Heck, if the general populace knew a player could create magic items, expect that player to "vanish")
My idea was to make magic items "weapons of legacy" style: Items that are as powerful as their user. Without too many heavy costs on the part of the wielder, I would like to see magic items scale with the level of the person who holds them.
So a peasent hero who picks up Excalibur may wield it as a +1 sword, but if king Arthur (Paladin 20) wields it, its like a +5 Vorpal Sword.
The only thing is, I can't piece together creation rules for such things. I want to place the burden on the creator or creators of an item, so that wizards and priest don't churn out magical items. (if you want better weapons or armor, get some adamantine ones)
My mechanical idea was to make every magic item created require 100 days and 4000 experience.
My experience with running in a low magic setting is that the party mages have no problem spending the XP to make a magic item, (Like a headband of intellect 6) because it rarely puts them too far behind other players.
Of course, this wouldn't apply to ALL magic items; Scrolls and potions would remain the same. (I may even remove the Xp component for those, because it is so trivial)
Any suggestions/ideas/concerns?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I think you could gain the desired effect simply by banning all 'Craft' feats except Brew Potion... or just ramp up the prereqs by a handful of levels. That would leave Crafting to the really high level and/or NPCs.

That way you don't need rules to figure out the 'cost' of a weapon, just design it and plunk it into the game.

Alternatively, use the Oriental Adventures Ancestral Weapon...er, I think that was what it was called... the one a player can invest XP to awaken abilities.. and those ablilities fade when the item is no longer owned by the bloodline of the XP donator.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Thanks for the reply.
I am thinking the mechanic will be that the prereqs will stay the same for the craft feats but:
a - Gold costs will be eliminated for all but scribe scroll and brew potion (What was the point of the gold cost? I assume it is for components and the like, but it never says that, so this money mysteriously vanishes from the economy without destroying it)
b - I think I want to set the creation times to be a long period, about a month or more. The One Ring or an Orb of Dragonkind probobly were not forged "between adventures" or "while resting" but were adventures themselves. (Gathering components, defending the crafter from those who would stop him, since he can't defend himself while crafting)
c - I think the costs for crafting should be a permenent one; Ex: Perhaps losing a level, or a point of con, or simply a large ammount of XP loss.
d - Magic items created in this manner are almost always intelligent items, perhaps with extra powers the creator did not intend. (Like a magic sword that could fire forth a lightning bolt once a day) The alignment of the item would probobly match that of the creator, or the purpose of the item. (So if a magical executioner's axe were created, it would probobly be an evil item, because it's sole purpose is to behead people) (Another example: A rod of rulership might be neutral, if that was the alignment of the creator and it was not to be put to nefarious use, but if it were created to enslave or "use" people, it might be evil, or become evil over time)
e - Most magic items would also have a minor curse or downside to them. It may be extremely minor, such as the wielder must spend a round or two speaking an elaborate command word to use it, or a dangerous one, like that of the Sword of Berserking. Perhaps the strength and variety of the "curse" would relate to the type of item. (Using an above example, a rod of rulership may allow you to control the people by force, but it saps a point of charisma every time all it's charges are used up to renew them, essentially forcing you to become reliant on the item for interaction, and eventually, consuming you)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Even without changing the gold cost, the simple mechanic of having the permanance spell {used in all Craft applications but Brew Potion and Scribe Scroll} having a cost of 1 CON point would go a long way to stopping players from creating whatever item they want.

The other parts, semi-inteligent based on the invested life-force.. is cool flavour

Gold costs are there for the character wealth guideline... mostly. IMC most of the creation stuff is done by NPC's so I pretty much ignore alot of the normal rules

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Instead of using a flat amount of time to create magic items, I'd use a multiplier. I think x4 is a good base, but if that ssems too low than go with x5 or x6, really depending on how rare you want your magic items. Disallowing most Item Creation feats is a step in the right direction. At leat let the players have access to Scribe Scroll and Create Potion.

Another couple of things you will need to do to preserve the flavor and aura of the campaign are readjusting the status of magic items to reflect minor or major artifact status. The artifacts currently in the DMG will be legendary in the campaign and if you want the players to eventually get a hold of one, make it the focus of a handful of adventures, dropping in clues about them here and there.

The other thing to do is to make sure that no magic item they find is vanilla. A simple magic item, like a +1 sword should have a specific name and a history behind it.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

I threw out the gold cost because it is silly that this gold is "spent" on components for crafting and research and whatnot, but it doesnt matter where the pc is when he does this. EX He could be in a cave and the gold will vanish.
That, and wealth is a hard and fast resource that seems to steer players perceptions. EX: Got 2150 gp? Get a +1 sword. Or full plate.
I like to give abstract rewards (Like land or a keep or politcal/guild influence) and keep the gold resource to a minimum, so players can't solve all their problems simply by getting better equipment. (A Gnome berserker in the last game I ran didn't even GET armor till 7th level. He was granted Mithril fullplate as a reward, and he wanted it only so his Rage ac wasnt 7. The other players were still mostly using leather or chain by then)
As for the semi-intelligence: Its cool, and it makes the items seem more special than a collection of numbers. When was the last time your helmet told you how to fight? or (game example) that your Headband of Intellect would hint that some items were worth more than others. (10 ranks in appraise and detect magic at will)
As for the costs to make items, I was thinking two points of constitution would be the all-around cost. (Since I think I will have items scaling with their wielders, the cost should also somewhat scale with the mage.) Two points puts a wizard at a significant disadvantage, but doesn't penalize his level growth (Probobly allready done, due to the time he spent makeing whatever he made)
I should note I generally use 28 point buy, so two points of con hurt. But what you get for those 2 points is pretty nice: (Headband of int example) The ability to learn more spells, cast more spells, have more powerful spells, learn new skills, and possibly some other neato powers in addition.
I may put the curse effect idea into place, but perhaps only for other people who use the item. Sauron didn't seem too burdened by the One Ring.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Hey

...
Another couple of things you will need to do to preserve the flavor and aura of the campaign are readjusting the status of magic items to reflect minor or major artifact status. The artifacts currently in the DMG will be legendary in the campaign and if you want the players to eventually get a hold of one, make it the focus of a handful of adventures, dropping in clues about them here and there.

The other thing to do is to make sure that no magic item they find is vanilla. A simple magic item, like a +1 sword should have a specific name and a history behind it.

I do kindof see magic items as being artifact-esque in power. I don't want magic items to simply be just another bonus to hit, but something more interesting.
Anything I have given out (with a couple of lapses in judgement here and there) has been either: A - Artifact level in strength and history, (Ex: Deathstroke, a sword that is enchanted to kill kings) or B - Strange or different. (Ex: The Throne of Pure Chaos, a seat of power, granting many bonuses and abilities, but it can't be controlled, and it does what it wants some of the time. Think a global Wand of Wonder with a penchant for betrayal)
I would like players to make such things, but I don't want them to be trival efforts. (Oh, i just spent the 200000 gp and the 8000 xp and made the sword of killstealing)

 

[the Jester]

One thing I tried (and liked the way it played out) in my low-magic campaign experiment was requiring an item creator to have a formula and ingredients to make an item.

Taking an item creation feat gives the pc the formulae for one item per point of primary spellcasting ability bonus that the character meets the prereqs to craft. After that they have to learn new formulae.

Rather than handwaving the ingredients as a straight up cost, I made all items require the pcs go out and get something. Also, the low-magic game I ran was very low treasure, so requiring 1,000 gp to make an item was a MAJOR factor.

It seemed to work pretty well imc.

 

[starwed]

You might want to glance at older edition's item creation rules. The default assumption was that any decently powerful magic item would require several hard to find ingrediants, each of which might require a seperate quest.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Well, I started up a game using the cost of 2 points of permenent con in trade for an Item who's "plus" to whatever was equal to 1/2 the wielder(not the creator, the wielder)'s level. (Items without a "Plus" would simply have scaled effects based on their cost and the wielders level, like boots of speed would give +5' of movement/2 levels, so +50' at 20th, better than normal boots)
The PCs liked the idea, even after we decided the stat system for the game was 3d6, stats rolled in order, take what you roll. (We dubbed it "iron man" cause you better be a skilled player to survive)
Of course no one played a spellcaster, but that was because no one had good mental ability scores, and the one guy who could have been a decent sorcerer, had a 6 con and went Bard instead. (Didn't take perform though, so he will starve to death if he doesn't earn enough money for food )
Making all the items Intelligent and somewhat cursed also seemed like a real group-pleaser, 'cause it makes the items different and more flavorful than "Gloves of dexterity +4"
I still don't know what to do about creation times, I might use that idea of rare components, perhaps one per spell required to make the item. (So good luck forging a Staff of Power)
I am also thinking the component for making an amulet of Constitution would be something like the heart of a dragon or something equally impossible to get.