D&D 5E Low magic player characters in D&D 5e

[steeldragons]

I have to agree with [MENTION=3887]Mallus[/MENTION] and [MENTION=15809]The Mirrorball Man[/MENTION]. 5e seems a very strange, anti-intuitive, place to try to do "low magic campaigns." They simply gave spellcasting to EVERYone!

To make it work, and obviously this is subject to how I am interpreting your idea of the flavor, I would take the following steps (well presented/laid out for the Players prior to character creation):

1. Fighters, Thieves and Barbarians all have "magical" sub-classes. Take them off the table. No Eldritch Knights. No Arcane Tricksters. No Totem Warrior Barbarians.
1a) For a bit more old school feel: Take them almost off the table: Allow Eldritch Knights for High Elves only. Allow Arcane Tricksters for Gnomes (or just Forest Gnomes) only.

2. Rangers, spellcasting, right out. If you can fluff a spell to be some "trick or mundane skill" then leave it. But this requires a spell-by-spell assessment and clear "spell" list provided for Ranger PCs.
3. Cantrips...f--in' at-will cantrips. Level + Caster Ability mod. times per day. Done. That's all you get until whenever your spell-reclamation/rest cycle is (i.e. a Wizard could use their Arcane Recovery to get some cantrips back prior to a rest, etc...)

4. You said you don't want to eliminate options, but I see no choice but to nix Sorcerers and Warlocks (for PCs). Making these guys "You're one of only a handful in the world" (like paladins), almost guarantees you're just going to end up with a party of "Paladin, Sorcerer, 2 Warlocks and a Wizard."
4a) IF you are going to allow Sorcerers or Warlocks as PC options, I would make it VERY clear and VERY intense in-game that they are pariahs! They are strange/unusual/frightful individuals and if they are caught using their powers, people WILL want put them on the stake. IF a reputation as a "known" Sorcerer or Warlock (the common folk and most nobles will not bother to acknowledge/accept any distinction) you will be persecuted at every turn. This attitude could easily be extended to Wizards...and even Druids if you want. But you need to make the players aware that THAT is the "low magic world" in which they are. That it will happen...just about anywhere/with anyone.

5. I would "generalize" the Wizard. That is, there are no formal "specialist mages". NONE of the spell schools are half price/time, no "Savant" ability at 2nd. When the PC hits the appropriate level (2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th), they gain one of the tricks from any of the schools...if they want to choose all in one and be known as an "Illusioinist" or "Evoker" go for it. But the magic in the world is not so common as to require such differentiations. A Wizard is a Wizard is a Wizard.

6. Bards & Paladins are kind of the thorn in the side. You can remove them or accept that they are, well, always have been magical/divine warriors, so their magical skills I suppose must be left alone. But I would definitely make it know that as a Paladin or Bard, you are rare and awe/fear inspiring figure. No more than 1 in the party.

Alternately, instead of a "low magic" setting, try an "inconsistent/unreliable" magic setting. Every class is available. Everything works as written. Except...

EVERY spellcasting beyond 2nd level spells and/or beyond the caster's ability modifier (e.g. the 4th spell -of any level- you try to cast when you have a +3 Int. score) gets a roll on the Wild Magic chart. Clerics, Druids, Rangers, Arcane Tricksters, doesn't matter, EVERYBODY gets a ride on the Wild Magic Surge Parade...and thus those that are reliant on magic are few and far between.

 

[Mallus]

1a) For a bit more old school feel: Take them almost off the table: Allow Eldritch Knights for High Elves only. Allow Arcane Tricksters for Gnomes (or just Forest Gnomes) only.

Great suggestion!

I think this all boils down to: do you want magic-using PCs at all? The game should run fine if you outright ban them.

If you do decide to have magic-using PCs, you're kinda obliged to make whatever disadvantages/disincentives you use be both interesting & gameable. Dungeon Crawl Classics provides a some really good examples on how to do this (better than any official D&D product AFAIC).

And as [MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION] pointed out, there's no surer way to guarantee your players will choose something than declaring it 'rare' in the setting.

 

[SkidAce]

I have to agree with [MENTION=3887]Mallus[/MENTION] and [MENTION=15809]The Mirrorball Man[/MENTION]. 5e seems a very strange, anti-intuitive, place to try to do "low magic campaigns." They simply gave spellcasting to EVERYone!

...snip...

To make it work, and obviously this is subject to how I am interpreting your idea of the flavor, I would take the following steps (well presented/laid out for the Players prior to character creation):

Great ideas.

This shows that those who want to keep the d&d/5e chassis can tinker and reach the level of magic they would like.


My short reply to [MENTION=15809]The Mirrorball Man[/MENTION] earlier up thread was too vague, because I thought I would be dragged into the "go play something else" debate again. It is so very tiring to be told that over and over. I apologize for the incorrect assumption.

Posts by [MENTION=15809]The Mirrorball Man[/MENTION] and [MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION] , et al, showed a lot of willingness to discuss and ideas that answered and helped the OP. This is a constructive thread that I am glad for.

To the topic;

I normally decide if a campaign is a. RARE magic or b. LOW magic.

In both cases, the background world has very few spellcasters and or magical npcs, other than the monsters, and demons, and foes of the party etc.

In a., you could keep the PCs and their abilities more or less the same (perhaps restricting a few overly magical to suit the world info). The PCs are unique after all, and special. Thats why they are the heroes, there is no wizard elminster or other hero around for the most part. The heros may have a magical mentor or two in the begining, but they soon exceed their mentor and rise beyond, saving the town , village, what have you. The Foes in example a. would be rare, and would need some justification for their appearance. Perhaps an invasion, perhaps mutation (in the case of beasts etc.) Maybe vampires, thought to be merely legends, were accidently raised from their slumber (cliche, but this is just an example).

Of course in a. the players rise to be the movers and shakers of the area, and rightly so, they command powers known have seen since the "Time of Legends"!!!!!. (grin)

In b. you would do the resticting as [MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION] has so eloquently demonstrated. I have actually run several low magic campaigns where it was a thieve's guild scenario, nothing but rogues and fighters. Minor magic may show up, "he has the sword of Fandango, its light shows us our weaknesses, RUN!" but you would keep it more mundane. Perhaps swashbuckling, political, overthrow the corrupt ruler etc. Many of the foes would be normal people and beasts. And when magic does show up, it would be shrouded in legend and mystery. Such as the Dire Bear of Loch Lenore (a re-skinned cursed immortal troll) that has terrorized the area for generations.


Bottom line, many folks like tinkering and working with what they know/like. Are there better systems designed to produce the feel they are looking to get from low magic 5e? I suspect so. And some folks may use those systems and play happily ever after.

I prefer to tinker with D&D since the early 80s. Maybe its just habit, but I'm having fun.

(I could do a dissertation on high magic campaigns too, we've had them also)

 

[bedir than]

One of the great things about 'rare' magic settings that still have magic is after you've spent three sessions telling, showing, playing the low/rare magic and then having an encounter with something that is clearly magical the table gets a big "ooooooooh" and lots of questions as to how X did that and how do we do that?

 

[Herobizkit]

How about something like a Fatigue system?

• Cantrips get a limit of X/day based on number known.
• Rituals are limited enough; they should work as designed.
• First non-cantrip spell of the adventuring _day_ is "free"; no risk.
• Each spell thereafter requires (some kind of a) scaling Skill check to avoid Fatigue (perhaps the DC increases by 1 for every spell slot you use). A passed check means you can continue to cast as normal; failure turns you to Fatigued where no casting is possible until a short rest.
• After that, perhaps the next failed save (DC doesn't reset) results in the character being Exhausted, requiring a long rest to relieve.

S'pretty involved, I suppose.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Or PCs are the only people in the world apart from demons and other monsters who can cast spells and use magic?

That kind of leads to the party being overpowered, where humanoid NPC's have no counters or magic of their own. Imagine the havoc even a low level wizard could do in our world.

My advice, if you're running a "low magic" game, don't allow PC spellcasters, otherwise there's magic in every scene. Magic isnt rare if you do it multiple times every single day. Its like wanting to run a "low wealth" game, and letting people play billionaires.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Is D&D really the best RPG system to run a low magic fantasy campaign?

Sure, why not? Some editions are better than others, of course, but that goes without saying. I'm not sure 5e is among the better ones for it, what with the near lack of in-combat non-magical healing, but it can still be done. Particularly if there are, as mentioned, "hedge magic" rituals for things like healing.

Another option, if you think unlimited cantrips are a problem: You can cast *a* cantrip per short rest per character level you possess. Maybe up it to twice per character level at level 5, then without limit beyond level 10 (since, functionally speaking, 20 cantrips per short rest = average 8 cantrips per combat, well over what you could reasonably expect to use). This would mean that, for the first few levels, a Wizard (frex) will be lucky to have the luxury of casting more than one cantrip spell per combat. You could also see about delaying the spell progressions of caster classes, delaying the effect of Arcane Recovery, etc. Probably don't want to delay things too much--maybe drag things out for two levels and compress together the spell progressions for the highest levels? All of this is of course highly speculative and likely to make life very hard on low-level casters, but hopefully anyone playing a caster in such a universe accepts this burden.

I personally think it would be far less effort to just play an edition that has a large suite of strictly non-magical character options...but I doubt you'd be asking about it in a 5e forum if you were open to playing other editions, so I doubt that advice will be of much use to you.

 

[MrZeddaPiras]

I would ban all spellcasting classes and sub-classes except Wizards and Clerics, and I would make it clear these two are very rare in the campaign world, though they're not restricted to the players mechanically. Magic items are few and far between, and each of them has got a name and a story. I don't think that I would try to limit cantrips or change the way the classes work, for fear of breaking something. Of course, that wouldn't be a problem if in your game mechanical balance is less of a concern.

 

[Aenghus]

You may have to consider the problem of healing. Most 5e methods of fast healing require magic. So no magic means little or no fast healing, which can slow play down to a crawl, especially when things go wrong for the PCs.

A slow pace of play may suit the OP, but may torpedo some faster paced plots from the get go.

Workarounds include making healing potions alchemical rather than magical, and improving the effectiveness of mundane medicine.

 

[steeldragons]

Particularly if there are, as mentioned, "hedge magic" rituals for things like healing.

OH! THis reminds me of something I was going to put in my initial list:

Ritual Magic! Go through and take the utility spells that are castable as rituals...and make them Ritual ONLY! Sure, you're PC spellcasters can sure learn/use them, as rituals. But they are no longer "off the cuff" spells. Would probably, imho, help to make the magic FEEL more "low/strenuous/costly."