Low-magic settings and Core mechanics

[Anime Kidd]

I'm seeing a lot of people wanting low-magic settings (I'm one ) and many others kept pointing out various things that will be needed to be changed or looked at because the core rules assume to be played with the standard magic rules.

This got me thinking. What things are needed to be looked at when designing a low-magic setting? I can only think of one thing that everyone mentions, "PCs dealing with high DR monsters with limited low-level magic items" (assuming the setting hasn't many magic items sitting around).

I'm currently punching up a magic system that I hope captures the low-magic feel I'm looking for. So far, it is based off of the Call of Cthulhu magic system and mixed with the Spell Chain ideas being thrown around everywhere these days. It looks good so far, but each time I run into another mechanic it tends to become less and less coherent in my eyes. Maybe I'm just not dealing with it right...

 

[Silveras]

I'm seeing a lot of people wanting low-magic settings (I'm one ) and many others kept pointing out various things that will be needed to be changed or looked at because the core rules assume to be played with the standard magic rules.

This got me thinking. What things are needed to be looked at when designing a low-magic setting? I can only think of one thing that everyone mentions, "PCs dealing with high DR monsters with limited low-level magic items" (assuming the setting hasn't many magic items sitting around).

I'm currently punching up a magic system that I hope captures the low-magic feel I'm looking for. So far, it is based off of the Call of Cthulhu magic system and mixed with the Spell Chain ideas being thrown around everywhere these days. It looks good so far, but each time I run into another mechanic it tends to become less and less coherent in my eyes. Maybe I'm just not dealing with it right...

1st off, Unearthed Arcana has treatments of the D20 Modern Incantations (ritual magic for any class) and CoC Sanity systems for D&D use. You may want to look at that book for ideas.

Second, DR is less of a problem in some ways in 3.5 than it used to be in 3.0. Many creatures in 3.5 have DR that is penetrated by a special substance: Cold Iron, Silver, Adamantine, etc. Magic weapons are no longer needed in 5+ "grades", now there is just "any magic" or "epic" (basically, you either need +1, or you need +6 or higher). For a "low magic" world, the biggest (and easiest) thing to fix is DR/epic. Harder is DR/"material + alignment". Without some magic to align weapons, those are the ones that will stand out as being the hardest to deal with.

The problem is more subtle than that, though. The presence of flying monsters, for example, presumes that the PCs can get some flying magic of their own with which to chase the monsters. Without the possibility of flying magic, things that can fly away (or, worse, fly-by attack) become much more dangerous.

Then there are hit dice and hit points. The design presumes that the PCs will have access to fireball and other multiple-target heavy damage spells. So the monster hit dice keep going up, to keep the monsters challenging, and some get immunities to fire, cold, etc. However, if you lack magical cold, fire-immune things like fire elementals become much more challenging to deal with. Of course, in a low-magic setting, you may not have many of them running around. Still, things like Giants get lots of hit dice because it is presumed that they will be on the receiving end of big damage.

Now, turn that around. The damage done by monsters back to the party also presumes that the party has some means of healing that damage between fights: cure spells. Low magic means that there is less availability of cure spells, which means that every fight is potentially more lethal.

Just some things to think about.

 

[Anime Kidd]

You got some good points there; never really did think about hit points and flying monsters. I can't believe I forgot about UA, though I don't have it yet, but I hear many things about it. Whats this about incantations? Is it some lower powered form of Epic spells or something?

Anyways, I'm not sure some of the issues with low-magic vs mechanics would be much big a deal with my system. I have all the original spells and what not, but to get the higher spells, like Wish, you would need to meet some heavy requirements before hand. But, it is nice to see what issues I might have to deal with later on.

Maybe I should clarify my system in brief to give a good idea of what I'm working with. Basically it's "Call of Cthulhu meets Spell Chains with D&D spells..."

1. - Any caster can cast any spell that they know regardless of what spell it is (arcane or divine) so long as you meet the requirements for it; though there are level limits in place so you won't see a 5th-level caster using Wish.
2. - Almost all the spells are placed in a Spell Chain*. There is no set progression for spells besides requirements before learning them.

* A spell chain is a series of spells with a similar effect, like Summon Monster I-IX or Charm Person-Dominate Person, etc.

3. - When you cast a spell, you take temporary ability damage, a special kind of subdual damage known as Spell Damage, that can only be healed naturally or by a Heal skill check. The amount of damage you take depends on your Fortitude save. If you succeed you are dealt the minimum and if you fail you can take upto 3d4+1 damage.
4. - If you cast too many spells, you have the possibility of dying outright or become unconcsious for a few hours.
5. - Learning new spells (besides the two free spells with each caster level gained) takes a long time, about 1d3 weeks to decipher it and another 1d3 to learn, on average. So some spells have a few months before being learning, like Wish, taking a few months to both decipher AND learn.

That's about the basics of it. There is a bit more, like dealing with metamagic feats, using multiple casters to lessen spell damage, and pushing your limits.

Now that I typed it up, it has more of a "magic is dangerous/forbidden" feel and not low-magic feel. Any other ideas/advice?

 

[Remathilis]

Where are spell chains from? Those sound sorta like what I was thinking about.

Things you'll want to address:

* Item Creation is a no brainer. My humble suggestion is to remove them, or go 2e route and add +10 to the level requirments to learn them.

* Decide the role of achemical items in your game.

*

 

[Anime Kidd]

I've seen the idea of Spell Chains a few times on these boards and other sites. I believe Sean K Reynolds.com has a similar thing called Path Magic. Only real difference is that in my system, you don't upgrade spells.

I think adding an extra 10 levels is a bit overdoing it, maybe +5 levels. Still makes it harder to comeby, but at least the PCs won't have to be Epic to craft them.

 

[Silveras]

You got some good points there; never really did think about hit points and flying monsters. I can't believe I forgot about UA, though I don't have it yet, but I hear many things about it. Whats this about incantations? Is it some lower powered form of Epic spells or something?

Incantations are taken from D20 Modern. They are non-spell magics that any character can attempt. Thet are designed to be very specific (i.e., not as flexible as regular spells). The sample in Unearthed Arcana, for example, is for summoning a specific fiend to do a specific task (guarding a location). You cannot use the ritual to summon a different fiend, nor can you ask it to do something else. If the fiend is ever truly permanently destroyed, the Incantation becomes useless.

Incantations are performed using skill checks, usually Knowledge (arcana) and/or Spellcraft. The DCs can be high, but adding cost, prep time, specific conditions, and negative consequences can help reduce the DCs.

It is very much in the vein of "magic as creepy, obscure lore", and may be appropriate for the feel you are seeking.

Anyways, I'm not sure some of the issues with low-magic vs mechanics would be much big a deal with my system. I have all the original spells and what not, but to get the higher spells, like Wish, you would need to meet some heavy requirements before hand. But, it is nice to see what issues I might have to deal with later on.

Maybe I should clarify my system in brief to give a good idea of what I'm working with. Basically it's "Call of Cthulhu meets Spell Chains with D&D spells..."

1. - Any caster can cast any spell that they know regardless of what spell it is (arcane or divine) so long as you meet the requirements for it; though there are level limits in place so you won't see a 5th-level caster using Wish.
2. - Almost all the spells are placed in a Spell Chain*. There is no set progression for spells besides requirements before learning them.

* A spell chain is a series of spells with a similar effect, like Summon Monster I-IX or Charm Person-Dominate Person, etc.

3. - When you cast a spell, you take temporary ability damage, a special kind of subdual damage known as Spell Damage, that can only be healed naturally or by a Heal skill check. The amount of damage you take depends on your Fortitude save. If you succeed you are dealt the minimum and if you fail you can take upto 3d4+1 damage.
4. - If you cast too many spells, you have the possibility of dying outright or become unconcsious for a few hours.
5. - Learning new spells (besides the two free spells with each caster level gained) takes a long time, about 1d3 weeks to decipher it and another 1d3 to learn, on average. So some spells have a few months before being learning, like Wish, taking a few months to both decipher AND learn.

That's about the basics of it. There is a bit more, like dealing with metamagic feats, using multiple casters to lessen spell damage, and pushing your limits.

Now that I typed it up, it has more of a "magic is dangerous/forbidden" feel and not low-magic feel. Any other ideas/advice?

I don't mess with the spellcasting mechanics to make my world more "low-magic". I reduce the number of spellcasters in a community. This helps to make magic more rare, while at the same time eliminating the silly "why is magic so rare if every village has a wizard in it ?" scenario.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Silveras has a point. Flying creatures become far more powerful... which is not a bad thing. The entire point behind low Magic worlds is to either give a greater nod towards realism or to avoid the homicidal mania inducing "every problem has a solution-spell". Even in a Modern Setting a Flying Dragon would be an unholy terror. In a medieval type world a Dragon should be a Fire Breathing heart attack with wings.

Well in any case. Ken Hood wrote up some fabulous low (I mean really low) magic rules a few years back. I tout them every chance I get ( and they might be published soon from what I hear)

His Fix for Low Magic worlds was to cut down the damage direct damage spells do. my favouite rule is the Odds=One rule where every odd number rolled on a damage die counts as a one. In this way you can still roll high amounts of damage but more often than not the damage will remain low.
a 6th level fireball rolls 5,4,4, 1,6,6 which in normal D&D equals 26 pointsof damage but under the Odds=One rule the 5 does one point of damage and the 1 remain one point of damage reducing the total damage to 22 points of damage.

I see no reason why the above could not be applied to Supernatural and Spell Like abilities similar to Dragon's breath.

In the current low-magic campaign I am cooking up I am taking a page out of Kevin Smith's DOGMA. Look at the world around you. In the real world that are stories of miracles, ghosts, occultism, magical items and the such why would they not exist ina low magic world? Basically this amounts to letting the players define the magic. They want to go after the Codex of the Seven Hells then let them. In the real world the Necronomicon might be a worthless paperback but in your world it actually does what occultists in the real world claim it does.

 

[Remathilis]

Anime, you may want to look into V/WP and Star Wars for an answer.

Instead of spell damage, have spells do vitality damage to cast. You're still limited to spells known and spell slots, but spells cast do vitality damage equal to their spell level. If casting takes you into wound (and you're using your health for that ) then you take 1/2 the spell level in wound (minimum of 1). 0 level spells count as 1/2 Vp.

For example: a 1st level sorcerer can cast 5 0 level spells and 4 (3+ cha) spells. He has a con of 14 and thus has 6 Vp and 14 Wp. He casts 2 1st level spells in combat (thus reducing him to 4 V) and gets hit by a goblin for 4 points of damage (reducing his Vp to 0). He casts another 1st level spell at the goblin, and is at 13 Wp, and now is suffering all the affects of wound damage (fatigue, etc).

However, he rests for two hours, recovering 2 Vp. Now he can cast his last 1st level spell and take only 1 Vp damage.

Healing is a trickier cat hear though. You could rule that healing spells take no vitality points (or 1/2) to keep a caster from casting CMW and only getting 2 hp, which he pays for casting it. Or you could leave it and allow casters to take that risk.

Either way, its a suggestion. Any comments/flaws?

 

[Anime Kidd]

The reason I don't want to use V/WP is because then I would have to fiddle around with everything else. I don't want more work then I need.

 

[Drew]

Ken Hood wrote up some fabulous low (I mean really low) magic rules a few years back. I tout them every chance I get ( and they might be published soon from what I hear)

Do you have a link to these? I googled it to no avail.