Lycanthrope stats question

[zoroaster100]

I just reviewed the statistics for the lycanthropes in the Monster Manual, and I was confused about something. The template description says under Hit Dice that this is the same as the character or animal, whichever produces a higher hit point total. Under Abilities it says that the ability scores improve while in animal or hybrid form. The sample lycanthropes have the stats showing the different feats, attacks, etc. for humanoid and for animal/hybrid form, but for Hit Dice it only shows one set of stats. Same with saves. Shouldn't the hit points and saves be lower in humanoid form because of the drop in Constitution and Dexterity? Even though lycanthropes use the best base saves for character or animal in both forms, the ability scores change, which should impact the Fort and Ref saves. And although the lycanthrope's hit dice stay the same in all forms, should the bonus hit points from Constitution go away in humanoid form if the Constitution goes down without the bonus points gained in animal form?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

As I understand it:

A lycanthrope's shapechange is like polymorph self, in that your hp aren't affected by your new Con score. Though saving throws are always determined by the current ability scores of the form you are in.

 

[Hackenslash]

I have a WereTiger PC created.

Hello,

I have created a Were Tiger PC and will be playing in a high level campaign. After discussion we have come up with a simple solution to stat increases and the effects on the PC in question. Firstly, your Hit Dice will always remain the same in either form. Secondly, when you change into Hybrid or Animal form your stats will go up accordingly etc...and that will effect your hit points and damage and to hit and the gaining of feats from animal form etc....but when you change back to huminoid form your Hit points will decrease by the same amount and all other benefits will be as in your normal huminoid form. So it's similar to the Barbarian Rage ability in that your str. and con. increase and thus your hit points increase, but when to come out of your rage then you lose the hit points accordingly. If that kills you or makes you unconcisous then so be it. However the advantage a Lycanthrope has over a Barbarian is that they can assume their form for an indefinite amount of time and thus can wait to be healed before they change back to humanoid from, thus hopefully avoiding the unfortunate hit point loss causing a problem for their Humaniod Form. Hope this helps Love those Lycanthropes, they Rock in Combat....Oh and by the way, these rules are not official just from a logical point of view. Not sure about the Polymorph Self ruling as that seems unfair to have a stat increase and then not apply the stated bonuses. For example you would apply the Str. modifier to hit and damage, so why not the Con. Bonus. Oh well just my 2 cents....bye for now.

 

[zoroaster100]

Thanks for the responses. In my opinion the hit points should probably change as with barbarian rage. I see how the hit points would stay the same as with the polymorph spell (although 3.5 might change that, for all I know), but if hit points stay the same, regardless of the ability score change, wouldn't hit points be based on the humanoind Constitution instead of the animal Constitution, since the humanoid form is the original form? Though maybe this is supposed to be a special case given that the animal hit dice apply in humanoid or animal form, unless the character has higher hit dice on his or her own without the lycanthropy. Hopefully they'll clear up this vagueness in the lycanthrope entry in the 3.5 Monster Manual.