M/C Avenger ?

Istar

First Post
They nerfed Hero of Faith, and deservedly so.
And that had a pre-requ. of Wisdom 15,
They nerfed it badly.

But they still left the old one that is actually better now than the new one, and surprisingly has a an easier pre-req of Wisdon 13.

Pretty sloppy from these guys as that doesnt bal. out

Or have I missed somehting, was the first one nerfed also ?
 

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But they still left the old one that is actually better now than the new one,

Not quite true.

With revised Hero of Faith,
The effect lasts until you hit the target or until the target drops to 0 hit points.

And with Disciple of Divine Wrath.
The effect lasts until the end of your next turn.

So, with revised Hero of Faith, the oath lasts until the enemy is killed or you hit it. On the other hand, with Disciple of Divine Wrath, it is possible that you can't hit the target until the end of your next turn and the duration ends in vain.

Also, one important difference is that you can choose any one Avenger class skill with HF, while you can only gain Religion with DDW.
 

Eh, every optimizer wants to cheese this with multi-attacks and action points.

Good catch on the skill, though, Shin. That's a nice benefit.
 

Personally, I think having two multiclass feats for Avenger that are 'Oath of Emnity' and 'Oath of Emnity' and just changing the duration is boring and uninspired.

I think a better one would have been 'Silent Voice of Unity, once per encounter, after you hit, get +1 to damage for each ally adjacent to the target.' You could even branch that out:

'Silent Voice of Persuit, once per encounter, shift 5 squares towards an enemy you hit with an attack after they've moved away from you. This movement must end closer to the enemy.' and 'Silent Voice of Retribution, once per encounter, deal 2 damage to an enemy for each other enemy that has hit you since your last turn.'
 

Who said you can't get both?

I believe the PHB actually says you can't. In the section on multiclass feats, it says something like (saying this from memory, don't have the book in front of me) you can't choose more than one class-specific multiclass feat (which both of these are avenger specific), and it also says you can't take a multiclass feat for your own class (depending on the specifics of the actual rules, you may already be an 'avenger' after taking that first avenger multiclass feat).

But even if the semantics of the second don't apply (again, typing from memory so there may be some clause or something that i'm not thinking of), the first one regarding not being able to take more than one class-specific multiclass feat applies as a reason why you couldn't take both.


Of course, if i'm remembering incorrectly, by all means, just ignore everything I just wrote here :D
 

You can take 2 or more multiclass feats related to a certain class. If you can't, you cannot take multiclass feats which have another multiclass feat as a prerequisite (like all the power-swapping feats).

What you cannot is, taking multiclass feats related to 2 or more classes (unless you are a bard).
 

You can take 2 or more multiclass feats related to a certain class. If you can't, you cannot take multiclass feats which have another multiclass feat as a prerequisite (like all the power-swapping feats).

I was under the impression that power swap feats are not "class specific" - yes, they are multiclass feats but aren't tied to a specific class.

Anyway, no big deal, as said, I was saying all this from memory - so I may be remembering the text incorrectly.
 

You are. The actual rule is that you can't take multiclass feats for more than one class -- but you can take all the multiclass feats you can eat for the -same- class.

It's not just the powerswap feats -- consider the multiclass feats that require another multiclass feat from the same class -- like Healing Spirit. If you can take those (and you can), you can take multiple [Fighter Multiclass] feats and so on.
 

Not quite true.

With revised Hero of Faith,


And with Disciple of Divine Wrath.


So, with revised Hero of Faith, the oath lasts until the enemy is killed or you hit it. On the other hand, with Disciple of Divine Wrath, it is possible that you can't hit the target until the end of your next turn and the duration ends in vain.

Also, one important difference is that you can choose any one Avenger class skill with HF, while you can only gain Religion with DDW.

Yep except I dont miss so with minor action attacks, twin strike, AP's that 2 rounds will give me at least 3 or 4 hits.

To take a feat for one hit is just a joke, well for Rogues anyway.
 

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