M&M 2nd Edition: Underwhelmed?

[ThoughtBubble]

Yeah. I didn't like it at first. But then, then two things clicked. The attack/defense limiting based off of PL is a blessing as the attack/defense race was always a pain in the butt (the speedster with 22 defense vs the next closest party member with 17, hitting one was a pain and the next too easy...).

The other was the de-coupling of stats to attack and defense. Sure, it seems weird, and almost eerie. But the fact of the matter is that I made all the stats for the characters in my current game, and if I could do it again in 2E, they'd all be lower (except the space alien).

The reduced skill list is nice too. And the equipment section is a lot easier to use. Plus, one of the hero's mentors (an enhanced senses martial artist) got a significant boost in playability. I'm not sure how I feel about the new setup for devices (even if it is just an opaque version of the old device power).

The powers section is still a little nonsensical to me, and I feel nervous tweaking things all over again. And I'm curious as to why/how the paragon has enhanced strength at 20, when he's a PL 10 character (yes, I know, the bonus is +10, but it would have been nice to see a side bar on it).

I might try and do a re-boot/swap over to 2e, but I need to talk it over with my group, and particularly the speedster. He'll have more points, but he's going to be hit very hard in the defense.

But I managed to much more easily build a particular villian in 2E. Boost can go to 2x pl like enhanced strength, right?

 

[Dalamar]

The powers section is still a little nonsensical to me, and I feel nervous tweaking things all over again. And I'm curious as to why/how the paragon has enhanced strength at 20, when he's a PL 10 character (yes, I know, the bonus is +10, but it would have been nice to see a side bar on it).

This one I can asnwer. That's because ranks in a power aren't limited to your PL unless they affect something that is. The only limited things are Attack bonus, Damage/Save DC bonus, Defense Bonus, Save bonus, Skill ranks, and Ability bonus, IIRC. The first three and Toughness Save bonus (and Str and Con bonus, by extension) are limited at PL, the rest are limited at PL+5.

This means that the total of a characters normal ability score and Enhanced ability score can't exceed a total that would give a bonus that exceeds one of those limites. So a PL10 character that already has a 31 natural Str can't have any ranks in Enhanced Str unless he exchanges Attack for Damage.
The Paragon, for example, has exchanged two points of Attack for Damage, so his maximum Str bonus is +12 and maximum Str score is 35. He could get to that 35 with just normal Str, or any combination of Str and Enhanced Str that adds up to 35.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

This one I can asnwer.

Thanks for the information!

 

[Dalamar]

No problem

 

[Kylara]

I get the feeling from a lot of these posts that people are just undergoing "familiarity growing pains". After 3 years of play its easy to scrawl down a 1E character from scratch because all the rules, powers, feats, skills and their values are in your mind.

Well now you just have to relearn some new values for a bit. Once you spend some time with the book you will find your ability to create characters quickly increases as your rule familiarity does.

Nope, thats not it. Missing power creation rules in a super hero book, that is not growing pains, thats just missing. Don't get me wrong, there are a heck of a lot of good things in 2.0, but there are also some fairly hefty drawbacks too. I get really angry when I see people deride anyone for not jumping for joy at new editions. It doesn't always have to be hating change because it is change, it could just be that they evaluated the differences, and don't like the actual changes.

 

[ZombieButch]

Nope, thats not it. Missing power creation rules in a super hero book, that is not growing pains, thats just missing.

That's one of the things that was decided would be better included in the Mastermind's Manual. They're missing from the core book, but not missing from the system; considering how full the core book already is, even at it's increased length, I'm not surprised.

 

[Kylara]

That's one of the things that was decided would be better included in the Mastermind's Manual. They're missing from the core book, but not missing from the system; considering how full the core book already is, even at it's increased length, I'm not surprised.

Are the Power Creation rules in the Core Book? No
Are they in any book that is availible? No

The system is missing power creation rules. You may consider them an add on, I do not, they should be in the core book, that they are not I must consider a marketing gimmick, especially as first edition had them. You should be able to run the system with just the main book, and part of that, in the super genre is the incredible variety of powers. You are not going to be able to convince me leaving out the power creation rules is a good idea when there are so many powers in the book that are just duplicates with different names. Understand that people are able to not like things for valid reasons, just because you are satisfied doesn't mean everyone will be.

This is part of the problem with the Atomic Think Tank anymore, anyone with any type of problem with the system is shouted under by fan boys who think the sun shines out of Green Ronin. I am not saying that this is even 1% of how it is there, just that intolerance of different opinions can drag down any board.

 

[ZombieButch]

You are not going to be able to convince me leaving out the power creation rules is a good idea when there are so many powers in the book that are just duplicates with different names.

I think you've made it pretty obvious that you're not one to be convinced. But if anyone else is wondering where the power creation rules are going to be, now they know.

Understand that people are able to not like things for valid reasons, just because you are satisfied doesn't mean everyone will be.

I think I understand that just fine, thanks. I'm not suggesting that you have to be satisfied, just pointing out the facts. Folks can make up their minds as they see fit; I would've bought the Masterminds Manual one way or another, so for me, it's not so much a big deal.

 

[Kylara]

I think I understand that just fine, thanks. I'm not suggesting that you have to be satisfied, just pointing out the facts. Folks can make up their minds as they see fit; I would've bought the Masterminds Manual one way or another, so for me, it's not so much a big deal.

I'm going to be buying the Masterminds Manual too, and I would have regardess, that doesn't mean that I think you should have to buy it to get to play the character you want instead of altering the character to what powers are availible in the core book.

 

[Elric]

This is part of the problem with the Atomic Think Tank anymore, anyone with any type of problem with the system is shouted under by fan boys who think the sun shines out of Green Ronin. I am not saying that this is even 1% of how it is there, just that intolerance of different opinions can drag down any board.

Anyone with a type of problem with the system is shouted down, but you aren't saying that this is 1% of how it is?

I think the problem is that a few people are looking for a fight.