M&M stacking powers

OK I still don't have my book back and one player is doesn't want to believe me so can anyone cite the rule for stacking bonus's.

Also does MnM have an Errata page?

thanks again


The Seraph of Earth and Stone
 

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Do you have the Revised rules or the 1st printing? The revised rules have all the errata in them already. If you don't I have no idea where the errata went cause I could not find it on their site... that blows :(
 



The stacking rules is one of the inherent flaws of the game and the main reason why I don't play it. That and it uses a d20 so I changed that for 2d10 if I ever ran it.

If you don't think of the game in Power Level terms, and just give them straight points, like 150 points and keep the limitations as far as BaB, Ability Scores, Defense scores but do away with the whole PL limitation as far as stacking goes, sure we would see characters with outrageous protection stackign, but we would see characters with logical offensive stacking also.

But...Protection does not add a bonus to Damage Saves, it just reduced the attack value of the attack by its rating. Anything else is then added to the Damage Save. So, Protection and Damage Save are two different things...right?

it doesn't make sense to me that a character who has Strike (Cosmic Power) +7 and Strike (Training) +6 be limited to only +10 because of the PL, but logically it would be a +13 as the character is designed.

This is why I like HERO and SAS over MnM, they don't have this problem with power stacking. They just let the character do what it is designed to do. I know that people could make characters that are broken in those systems also, but I think MnM would be just fine keeping all the initial character generation limitations of the PL except for the power stacking. Let the points go where they may.

Another question... When some of you have made MnM characters, and played in MnM games, what proportion of your power points go towards your skills?

I think that this game should incorporate an optional rule limiting player's options in one way, yet expanding them in another... instead of giving just a whopping 150 points at PL 10, the character is given 120 points for abilities and powers, and 30 points for skills. I think a PL 10 character should be very well skilled. Any additional points from disadvantages goes towards the abilities and powers side.
 

There are options in M&M for dropping the PL stacking rule - it's a sidebar in the same section where they discuss the standard rules on power stacking. It explains the exact things you say; it's just not the standard way it's done. I've never played in an M&M game that didn't have the power stacking in effect... but I really don't think it would be that big of a deal dropping that limitation.


As for the skills versus powers question... it really depends on the character. Right now, on ENWorld, I'm in two M&M games. Both characters are more powers than skills, but both games use a 1:X ratio for PP to Skill points. I disagree that all PL10 characters should be well-skilled in the normal sense; that's why Super-Skill and other skill-enhancing powers exist. And what about concepts involving powerful child characters - just because they have a mega-dose of power doesn't mean they should know anything about how to operate in the real world.
 

Acid_crash said:
it doesn't make sense to me that a character who has Strike (Cosmic Power) +7 and Strike (Training) +6 be limited to only +10 because of the PL, but logically it would be a +13 as the character is designed.

This is why I like HERO and SAS over MnM, they don't have this problem with power stacking.

The PL limit in M&M is the exact equivalent of a Damage Class (or Active Point) limit in HERO - do you regard those as an "inherent flaw" of HERO?

I'm not familiar with SAS, but I would be very surprised if they didn't have some similar mechanism.

J
 

drnuncheon said:
The PL limit in M&M is the exact equivalent of a Damage Class (or Active Point) limit in HERO - do you regard those as an "inherent flaw" of HERO?

I'm not familiar with SAS, but I would be very surprised if they didn't have some similar mechanism.

J

I don't like the PL limit in MnM as far as the stacking of powers goes and how it limits the stacking of similar powers. As far as I know, in HERO, you can have both a force field and armor and both work at the same time, adding to the defense of the character. If I am wrong, then someone point it out...but as far as MnM goes, the power stacking situation comes up a whole lot more in this game than the others.
 

Acid_crash said:
I don't like the PL limit in MnM as far as the stacking of powers goes and how it limits the stacking of similar powers. As far as I know, in HERO, you can have both a force field and armor and both work at the same time, adding to the defense of the character.

In M&M, you can have a force field and armor at the same time, and they both add to your defense, up to the limits set by the campaign's power level.

In HERO, you can have a force field and armor at the same time, and they both add to your defense, up to the limits set by the campaign's power level.

So, like I said, I'm really not seeing the difference. Every HERO game I've ever been in, every HERO setting I've seen published talks about the same kind of caps. Does the GM not set these kinds of limits in your HERO games? He doesn't say '10 DC is the average attack, 12 DC is the max, and you can't go over 20 resistant defense'?)

J
 
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PL stacking rules in terms of the PL cap makes complete sense. It's just that it's metagame sense. Sure, a guy with Strike +7 (Cosmic) and Strike +6 (Training) should be +13, but if he has that, then in game terms, he's a PL13 character. If he's a PL10 character, then his training, while good, isn't so good that he can use all his cool martial arts moves while wielding fields of raw energy in his hands, so while he's certainly better with the field than without it, he's not as much better as someone who had no previous training would be -- there's overlap.

Ta-dah. Justified.

But really, that's flavor text. The PL cap is not there for flavor text. The PL cap is there to stop abuses. There are probably some games where the groups are good enough that they don't need the PL cap, because they don't abuse the rules. There are, while we're talking about hypotheticals, probably some groups who are good enough that they don't even need to roll the d20, because they won't abuse their chance of hitting. "Oh, I said that my guy was good, not great, at melee combat, so I'll have him miss this time." I'm sure groups like that exist.

But for the default group, it's a good rule, and a good one to have included in the game system. If you ditch it, you'd better be darn sure that your group is not going to abuse the lack-of-cap, either through intentional malice or accidental goof-ups. Personally, I'd feel fine getting rid of it in my current M&M-rules game, but only because I'm already working with people enough on their characters (and saying, frankly, "Okay, that's legal, but in this particular campaign, that's a pretty unbalancing power, and I'd either have to change things a bunch, come after you with anti-you-designed characters, or up the power of the bad guys enough that everyone else is toast, so I'd appreciate it if you went a different way," sometimes) that I can nip those things in the bud.

Otherwise, if you're going to ditch the PL cap but keep most of the other rules in place, then hey, I've got a bad guy for you to send at your heroes. Don't worry. He's only PL 1.

Drain(Constitution) +15 -- base cost of 2
- Extra: Range to Normal: +1
- Extra: Area: +1
- Flaw: Full Effect Only
- Flaw: Action to full-round: +1
- Flaw: Device: +1

Well, my PL1 bad guys with the 15-point-Con-drain guns are a bit scary, but thanks to your removal of the PL cap, I'm sure the heroes all have the ability to make the DC25 Will save to avoid that Drain effect... or heck, DC25 Reflex save for the area effect, and a mere DC17 for 7 points of Con damage if they make that save.

And man, think of the 300-foot-radius sphere of death those guys would be unleashing. How awesome is that? PL1 guys have NEVER been this cool! :D
 

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