M&M2e: No HP!? What were they thinking?

[Jim Hague]

Unearthed Arcana. (With all due respect to Monte Cook and his product line, WotC should never have allowed this confusion.)

Aha, clarity dawns. Thanks! What's sad is that I own copies of both and can never remember the difference.

 

[buzz]

The thing is, I haven't seen a post on this thread where anybody 'hopped on ENWorld and complained that Green Ronin had betrayed all the fans and personally screwed his group by doing this'...

Well, Denaes did use words like "arrogant" in reference to GR, calling the HP decision an "offense" and a "We don't need your kind" statement. Granted, his initial post was really more of a complaint about his gaming group and less about M&M2e. Unfortunately, the two seem to have been conflated a bit, and some other people apparently missed Kenson's handy post mentioning that all optional rules (and more) are still in M&M2e, they're just in a separate book.

Ergo, business as usual on Web fora.

The main point is simply: these are some very small things to be upset about, much less spend time discussing.

The secondary point: with revisions come change. That's life as a gamer.

The tertiary point: play with whatever rules work for you.

 

[jdrakeh]

The tertiary point: play with whatever rules work for you.

That should always be the primary point, I think. 'Course I've always purchased/played with rules that work for me. I honestly believe that I am part of a shrinking minority in this regard, as I know dozens (possibly hundreds) of people who play/purchase games just because they can - even if said games have horribly poor production values, cover subject matter that they have no interest in, etc.

Really, I think that a lot of the problems that seem to dominate certain products today (poor editing, lack of proofreaders, limited playtesting, etc) are almost exclusively linked to a scary amount of impulse purchases. When people buy a lot of stuff sight unseen, it sends the message to publishers that the consumer doesn't care about things like editing, layout, or (in worst case scenarios) thoroughly playtested rules (I'm looking at you DangerQuest!). But this is horribly off topic. To get back on topi...

USE WHATEVER RULES SUIT YOU BEST

 

[Allensh]

Keep in mind, GR will be publishing a GM's guide for M&M, which may very well have alternate rules, e.g., hit points.

IMO, complaining about the lack of them in the core book is silly. I never got the impression from the M&M boards that many people ever used hp's in their games. And if you really must, well, the rules are there in your 1e copy.

Gamers are a weird lot.

I wouldn't use hit points in a Mutants and Masterminds game if someone gave me a copy of Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 to do so. And I know someone who did use that variable defense rule..and it completely ruined his game.

I have NO problem with the so-called optional rules being gone. Mutants and Masterminds 2nd edition is THE best superhero game I have even seen, and I have seen a lot of them.

Allen

 

[EditorBFG]

Aha, clarity dawns. Thanks! What's sad is that I own copies of both and can never remember the difference.

Unless I miss my guess, the fact that a book called Unearthed Arcana and a book called Arcana Unearthed exist is probably a big reason why the augmented and repackaged version of the latter was released as Arcana Evolved.

I try to say Arcana Evolved, even though I only own the original, just to avoid confusion.

 

[Ranger REG]

I have NO problem with the so-called optional rules being gone. Mutants and Masterminds 2nd edition is THE best superhero game I have even seen, and I have seen a lot of them.

Allen

Well, it's not totally gone. It will be offered in a future "variant rules toolkit" supplement.

I'm just ridiculing the folks who think they're entitled to have the hit points variant rules in the core rulebook.

 

[Kichwas]

While I like damage save, I'm sorely dissapointed by the omission of something so basic. Basically saying "We don't need your kind" to Players/Groups who don't like the damage save.

DnD chose to omit something 'so basic' as the damage save in its core rules. As well as something 'so basic' as a point based classless character design system. We should be 'sorely dissapointed' over this.

 

[barsoomcore]

I read threads like this for the pictures.

 

[EditorBFG]

I read threads like this to feel better about bad reviews.

"Wow, that guy really slammed us. I had no idea we'd done such a bad ... oh wait, I forgot, he's a gamer; gamers like to whine about nothing for no reason. So... Okay, maybe the review has some valid points ... but then again, maybe not."

What's unfortunate is, how constant interjections of "They didn't design this product to suit my exact arbitrarily invented personal criteria on this given day as I recline on my couch, the book sucks" make it hard to spot the decent and rational criticism out there.

 

[woodelf]

Is this the point where I point out that technically no, it's not a d20 game at all?

Of course, I've used both sides of that argument on occasion. But despite the fact that it is indeed heavily built off of a d20 chassis, M&M is technically not a d20 game.

No, what it technically isn't is a D20 System logoed game. The fact that it can't bear the D20 System logo in no way disqualifies it from being a D20 System game, much less hte much vaguer target of being a "d20 game"--which, arguably, would include Fading Suns, Traveller: the New Era, and Talislanta 4. If you're gonna get semantic, let's do it right.

As for what is, or should be, expected of a D20 System logoed game--that's spelled out in the D20STL. And it says nothing about what must be included, only on what may not be included, and how certain things must be defined if they're included.