Mad God's Key + mystery/CSI fans = physical evidence

[Wraith Form]

From the CSI bag of clues: You could have some areas of the Temple sprinkled with certain types of spores (ferns or types of fungus perhaps) or plant residue. If the PCs find it and investigate, they could learn that the area of the tomb has those specific types of plants etc. Although, if you don't have any naturey types this might not work as well (or at least, one PC with decent INT/WIS or K: skills).

All of my players have high Spot / Search skill scores, so that's not an issue.

 

[Mechanurge]

Mud/clay from the area around the tomb.
A specific type of stone or stone dust (feldspar, pink granite) left at the scene of the crime.
A bit of fur from a pet or animal that wanders a regular path between the tomb and where the PCs are.

 

[howandwhy99]

Just a general FYI because I don't want to give any more specific clues. When you extrapolate the consequences of your world moving forward look specifically at the effects the NPC has in the places he goes. Consequences aren't just for the players. As the NPC behaves according to his goals, personality, background, etc. he will leave little clues to his true nature behind without helping it. This will give the players the ability to learn more about who they face and what he may be up to.

IME, (which isn't much admittedly) using clues to lead players down a single path is a little like resting your campaign on the players correctly answering a riddle. It better be an easy riddle or the world and campaign will end pretty darn fast. As easy riddles are weak challenges, success seems a little weak too. On the other hand, if clues lie everywhere as an honest to goodness trail, one that is formed from consequences to clues instead of vice versa (like my help above), then the players can track down multiple leads and achieve the end without funneling. Personally, I'd still leave open the possibility of the players quitting the case, but every DM runs the game differently.

The hard part isn't so much knowing what your NPC did while in town, but forming those consequences into clues that your players may recognize. Part of it is knowing your players, but genre staples work too. One idea is removing something that should be there, instead of placing an item that shouldn't be. (Recognizing when something is absent is always fun for me as a player) Another possibility is including bizarre motives like the 3 pairs of shoes above. When the players start asking "Why?" you're on the right track. Just keep everything to a high degree of verisimilitude and whenever anything smells off you're players should jump at it. If they separate the wheat from the chaff and lay out the pieces in different patterns, the mystery will be a success. Just have a few more clues on hand to drop, if they absolutely must succeed.

 

[Wraith Form]

Just a general FYI because I don't want to give any more specific clues.

Why don't you want to give more specific clues?

. . .

While I certainly appreciate your advice, I'm not sure how that helps me specifically with Mad God's Key. I mean, I can try to keep your suggestions in mind for the future (as I enjoy mystery adventures) but I'm trying--and, admittedly, failing--to see where your advice fits in to this specific adventure. Is it possibly to re-phrase or clarify?

Also, just as an fyi, I'm actually looking for clue ideas so that there ARE more than one clue I can leave--in case they don't get one they have another to fall back on, exactly as you're saying.

 

[howandwhy99]

Why don't you want to give more specific clues?

It's not negativity. To really give you some quality answers knowing a lot more about the world and context you are running the adventure in helps. Drawing on PC background and previous game events is easiest. So I just thought advice would work better than random clues.

While I certainly appreciate your advice, I'm not sure how that helps me specifically with Mad God's Key. I mean, I can try to keep your suggestions in mind for the future (as I enjoy mystery adventures) but I'm trying--and, admittedly, failing--to see where your advice fits in to this specific adventure. Is it possibly to re-phrase or clarify?

Well, for MGK specifically try thinking of why the priest Veltargo was in the city. Where did he stay? Who did he visit? What were his goals while living there? How did he determine another means of entrance since he lost the cairn charm? What/who did he bring with him on the journey? There were probably a number of things he did that could lead to potential clues. Your players can be "on the trail" without have a linear trail. That was my advice.

Also, just as an fyi, I'm actually looking for clue ideas so that there ARE more than one clue I can leave--in case they don't get one they have another to fall back on, exactly as you're saying.

I do like dreaming up more cool stuff, so here are some random ideas:

1. If it's winter in your game, big V bought some snow shoes and winter camping gear. Good signs he has left the city and may already be gone.

2. V brought 2 hunting dogs along with him from the secret temple. These are devils in disguise. He pays for grooming, toys, whatever, and pawns each off to any noble worth spying on. The devil/dogs are a red herring, but a potential source of information if the PCs find one and use magic to control it.

3. I'd imagine secret temples in cairns do not receive much in the way of supplies very often, so big V would purchase a great deal in the way of supplies and need caravan guards to assist in transport. Big sales and moves like this are pretty obvious, so he'd need a cover story. Dead guards not reporting back is also a potential problem. Maybe he masquerades as a good cleric? Maybe he has contacts in town (more info givers)? Maybe he has a deal worked out with a Black Market and he sold certain religious artifacts (bring in Vecna here) to pay for the outing? All sorts of stuff can come from this.

4. No church operates alone. At least most don't and Vecna as a god of secrets would be desiring more if not spreading them. Secret missives with protections and codes can be fun. Who he gave these too might end up dead as the sale was a "hit". Or maybe they have information both pertinent and unrelated to the PCs' search. Discovering the mystery behind certain messages can be fun too.

 

[Wraith Form]

It's not negativity. To really give you some quality answers knowing a lot more about the world and context you are running the adventure in helps. Drawing on PC background and previous game events is easiest. So I just thought advice would work better than random clues.

After re-reading the entire post, I discovered too late you'd supplied clues in an earlier post--and I just didn't realize that. (embarrassed) I sounded kinda snarky, and I apologize.

Well, for MGK specifically try thinking of why the priest Veltargo was in the city. Where did he stay? Who did he visit? What were his goals while living there? How did he determine another means of entrance since he lost the cairn charm? What/who did he bring with him on the journey? There were probably a number of things he did that could lead to potential clues. Your players can be "on the trail" without have a linear trail. That was my advice.

Hmm, yeah...I've been pondering the idea that clues are a function of the suspect's personality (as you mentioned). My game is in 2 days and I don't have a feel for the Big V's personality, aside from his lack of hygene. Gonna work on that....

I do like dreaming up more cool stuff, so here are some random ideas:

Thanks!

 

[Wraith Form]

The more I think over your suggestions regarding clues as a function of a suspect's personality & activities, the more I see your point. I have a few decent ideas, now, how to get my players investigating the mausoleum.

I think part of the issue is that my players are either 1) not thinking like investigators, or 2) they're just lazy, or 3) both. They don't seem to make the connection that they can research and investigate...well, just about anything or anybody.

I also suspect that's why my Call of Cthulhu game from a few months ago (with the same players) died... (no pun intended )

 

[Wraith Form]

[regarding Veltargo] Maybe he masquerades as a good cleric?

Well, erm, yeah--that's why he stole the robe from Altamaic, the priest of Boccob.

Maybe he has a deal worked out with a Black Market and he sold certain religious artifacts (bring in Vecna here) to pay for the outing? All sorts of stuff can come from this.

Great idea, and absolutely *yoinked* for the game.

As I mentioned in my orginal post, the players are part of a powerful thieves' guild. They're from another city, but traveled to Greyhawk investigating those pesky Green Daggers. (The Greenies were seen as a potential threat to the guild the players work for.)

The players' contact in Greyhawk, a spy for their motherland's guild who is appraising how "ripe" Greyhawk is for the guild's takeover in that part of the country, would have contacts in the black market. He can siphon information over to them.

Thanks again!