Mad King's Banquet 4e: Ressurection? (Spoilers)

[EugeneZ]

Edit: Misspelled resurrection in the topic name. Nice.

So, I should have noticed this much earlier when I first read the adventure but I'm only noticing it now that I have to run a game concerning the news of Steppengard's childrens' assassinations. The adventure says that his heirs were all killed and their hearts removed. I don't know if this was enough to present resurrection in 3e, but it certainly isn't enough in 4e. Raise Dead can raise someone back from the dead using any piece of their body, unless the corpse:

1. died of old age
2. was petrified (need to use Remove Affliction first)
3. is protected magically to prevent the return of the soul
4. belongs to a soul which is prevented a return, probably because of a god (or more than one)

I guess I'm going to have to say there's some sort of magical protection on the corpses. Weirdly, though, that would mean that Steppengard would be far more predisposed to allying with Seaquen. Hmmm... or (I'm thinking as I type) maybe in his insane state, he would think Seaquen had something to do with making them unrevivable in the first place.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Perhaps the hearts were all brought to un-life, binding the souls and stopping any chance at raise dead?

Altho I am more of the thought that an anti-raise dead ritual happens to include removing the heart and doing something arcane to hit.

Or you could steal from Stephen Brust and the assasins used a special soul-destroying weapon.

Of course, all of these means imply that <a> the Ragesian's have some forces that can do this and <b> the PCs might be able to get ahold to the same measures.

 

[EugeneZ]

Perhaps the hearts were all brought to un-life, binding the souls and stopping any chance at raise dead?

That still implies a magical limitation. Why wouldn't Steppengard *want* Seaquen's help at that point? Unless he's too paranoid and thinks they have something to do with it, but I'd rather avoid changing the political dynamics. I think they're pretty realistic at the moment; if Steppengard truly suspects the PCs of assassinating his children, he'd have them killed on the spot.

Altho I am more of the thought that an anti-raise dead ritual happens to include removing the heart and doing something arcane to hit.

Still magical, same problems, unfortunately.

Or you could steal from Stephen Brust and the assasins used a special soul-destroying weapon.

This is a very tempting idea. I have to think about it, because I'm not sure how much of it is that Stephen Brust is one of my favorite authors and whether such a mechanic makes sense -- but it would cleanly solve the problem above.

Of course, all of these means imply that <a> the Ragesian's have some forces that can do this and <b> the PCs might be able to get ahold to the same measures.

Precisely. Still, I wouldn't put the Ragesians above employing soul-killing weapons, and giving the PCs access to these isn't too big of a deal. Unfortunately, in DnD, the PCs often require resurrection, but NPCs never seem to recall this is possible...

Actually, slightly off-topic, this got me thinking about how simple, cheap resurrection would change the 4e world, particularily Burning Sky. Thanks for bringing up Brust, completely forgot he's already spent over a dozen books exploring this idea.

 

[Morrus]

Alternatively, just say that the beliefs of Steppengard and his family firmly forbid resurrection. Having him unwilling is just as flexible as having him unable.

Or - the Book of Eight Lands, because it is an artifact which governs succession, prevents anyone in the line of succession from being resurrected.

 

[EugeneZ]

Alternatively, just say that the beliefs of Steppengard and his family firmly forbid resurrection. Having him unwilling is just as flexible as having him unable.

Or - the Book of Eight Lands, because it is an artifact which governs succession, prevents anyone in the line of succession from being resurrected.

Both good ideas, though I'm not sure whether people will buy that Steppengard is against family resurrection. Particularly since he became king on a "platform" of protecting Dassen by protecting its succession.

The second one might be *perfect* though. I think I'll go with that. The Book of Eight Lands is simply against resurrection. Why? Well, it's a magical artifact, who knows -- but perhaps it has something to do with ensuring the "sanctity" of a ruler or his heirs.

Thanks!

 

[RangerWickett]

I thought that in 4e they'd put in the idea that some folks just don't get to come back after they die. The gods/Fate/etc. only let you return to the world of the living if you have some destiny.

Or alternately, most people who die don't have a pressing reason to return to the world of the living. Or the trauma of murder is too shocking to most people, and their souls recede from the world of the living to forget the trauma (but folks like adventurers who see lots of death can come back more easily).

Or, y'know, say that cutting out the hearts actually stops resurrection. Or maybe the heart is the component of a low level ritual to prevent resurrection, something that any decent assassin could learn without necessarily needing great magical prowess. It certainly ties in with the Myth of the Aquiline Heart.

 

[Daern]

Here's the Rules... I like RW's version, that it is quite easy to prevent raising and that they often don't work. I'd also like RW to publish more chapters from his novel!

Raise Dead
To perform the Raise Dead ritual, you must have a part of the corpse of a creature that died no more than 30 days ago. You apply mystic salves, then pray to the gods to restore the dead creature’s life. The subject returns to life as if he or she had taken an extended rest. The subject is freed of any temporary conditions suffered at death, but permanent conditions remain.
The subject returns with a death penalty: –1 to all attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws, and ability checks. This death penalty fades after the subject reaches three milestones.
You can’t restore life to a creature that has been petrified or to a creature that died of old age.
The subject’s soul must be free and willing to return to life. Some magical effects trap the soul and thus prevent Raise Dead from working, and the gods can intervene to prevent a soul from journeying back to the realm of the living. In all cases, death is less inclined to return paragon and epic heroes; the component cost is 5,000 gp for paragon tier characters and 50,000 gp for epic tier characters.

 

[EugeneZ]

Or, y'know, say that cutting out the hearts actually stops resurrection. Or maybe the heart is the component of a low level ritual to prevent resurrection, something that any decent assassin could learn without necessarily needing great magical prowess. It certainly ties in with the Myth of the Aquiline Heart.

And it's for this reason that I still kept that part of the tale, regardless of how I eventually resolve it. I broke the news to the characters today, and they were unfazed; the idea of resurrection did not occur to them. Same mental tick that convinced me not to question it on my first read-through. I guess, at some level, people assume that if Steppengard's family was murdered, and they're not being resurrected for it, there's certainly a good reason for it.