Mage RPG discussion (threadjack from 4e Character in a 3E World thread)

[eyebeams]

This is my experience. We used bits and pieces of the metaplot here and there and ignored it for the rest. This differed from chronicle to chronicle, of course - my Mage 1e/2e chronicle was fairly close to canon in many respects, but my Revised chronicles less so (the current one doesn't even have any Traditions or Techies, for example.)

This is as it should be.

I'm of mixed opinion about the rules reflecting the metaplot changes. On the one hand I didn't much like having all the changes to Spirit and the Umbra shoved down my throat with Revised. On the other hand, those changes are absurdly easy to ignore, alter or revert to the rules of 1e or 2e.

The Avatar Storm is really the only thing that was there because of the storyline. There was some flavourtext about Paradox changing, but 2e Paradox was far more severe -- it forced you to wing it, because if you used the rules as written Paradox either did nothing or killed you bad.

There was an (apocryphal, I guess) story back in the day that, for a period, the Mage 2e corebook was outselling any other WoD book, even Vampire. (Which led to my favourite WW loony conspiracy theory ever, namely that Mage 2e was replaced with Revised because the top dogs at WW preferred Vampire and were insanely jealous of the success of Mage. Priceless.)

2e probably did outsell Vampire 2e for a short period after release, because this is how RPG sales work. The idea is extraordinarily looney, though. In my entire time writing, I've had maybe one note about another line, and that's when I was told I shouldn't have a backstory where a Mage NPC kills a bunch of werewolves because it's a tired cliche when it comes to proving how badass an NPC is. This was for an portion of Akashic Brotherhood that was eventually cut anyways.

 

[Mark Hope]

Consider that this thread, on this very board, includes *no* reminiscing or concrete mechanical discussion of the old Mage.

Is that a challenge?

I had a thread running over at shadownessence.com (where I post as Thebian) with discussion about my current game, but got kinda bored of posting to it as it seemed to be falling on deaf ears, lol...

(It is by the way, very easy to tell who has actual experience with the old Mage, since it has a very significant systems problem that anybody who plays it for any notable length of time notices immediately and usually mentions. No, I'm not going to say what it is -- that makes it too easy to cheat.)

Sphere DCs that scale with power level - serious pain in the ass. (Having several redundant opposed rolls in combat, all with the same DC, comes a close second for me.)

This is as it should be.

Indeed. Never understood protestations to the contrary.

I was told I shouldn't have a backstory where a Mage NPC kills a bunch of werewolves because it's a tired cliche when it comes to proving how badass an NPC is. This was for an portion of Akashic Brotherhood that was eventually cut anyways.

But isn't that what Akashics do all day long? Kick garou and HITMark butt? And do yoga?

 

[Vocenoctum]

I mean the whole kit and kaboodle.

So, what percentage comparatively of sales of the core book and perhaps the immediate guides (player, st) were there between the editions?

Obviously no exact numbers will be forthcoming, but saying nWoD sold 20% more than 2nd edition oWoD shouldn't be hard.

Or they weren't playing much but loved to hold forth on the Internet.

Again, that assumes the conclusion and seeks to prove it. I remember the old usenet discussions, where Mage revolved around "how many dots to do this" or philosophy, Vampire tended to argue metaplot , et cetera. Never seemed to be a representative sample to me.

(It is by the way, very easy to tell who has actual experience with the old Mage, since it has a very significant systems problem that anybody who plays it for any notable length of time notices immediately and usually mentions. No, I'm not going to say what it is -- that makes it too easy to cheat.)

Cool, so there's a test to see if a person's opinion is valid? I'm sure that's handy.

The plotline was responsible for one new game mechanic (for the Avatar Storm). The Paradox rules are actually much more forgiving than 2nd Ed. I have an article posted up on Shadownessence.com, which is about a million x better for WoD-oriented discussion. The Revised core did have problems, granted. It really needed to be produced on a looser deadline.

I never followed Mage's metaplot, I was just making a general comment. FR was always a good example of metaplot gone awry, and any major event that later products build on can be a major down-turn to the products.

 

[stonegod]

*shrugs* Been over 10yrs since I played Mage and the world's moved on. I'm sentimental about some of my much older 2nd Ed D&D games too even though I had problems w/ that system as well that'd be difficult for me to recall and articulate today. I have no axe to grind either, just my thoughts. Folks still play 2E, Mage Rev, or nMage? More power to them. They're just not my thing.

 

[SSquirrel]

ENWorld is ostensibly about any RPGs, but a lot fo threads that get started about other RPGs end up going nowhere, so I don't bother. I haven't gotten to actively play Mage in 10 years, but in the time between release and leading up to that I played a whole lot of it. The internet is much more widespread now than it was even 10 years ago, less people are using usenet, which is where I used to get laods of info and different variants for the game.

It isn't so much that I have an axe to grind as I want to try and express teh things I miss about the old system compared with the new. Glad it's going well for WW, it just doesn't fly with me.