Mages, HP, and survival

[Mercule]

Well, I'm creating a 13th level Sorcerer for a short-term, pressure-release game. Basically, we're giving up on RtToEE, but the DM is letting us bring in some high-level characters to bash in a few heads before we depart.

In over 20 years of gaming, I've never played a high-level mage, and as I'm putting this character together, I keep wondering about survival. I'd like to play a somewhat older, infirm mage, but if I take the Con penalty, that puts me at 27 hps (vs. 40), which sounds insane. I'm sure it's fine, otherwise no one would ever play wizards, but I need confirmation.

So, for those of you who've played a few more mages, is a 13th level sorcerer with 27 hps going to die quick or is it livable?

If the rest of the group consists of a half-ogre fighter, a gnome ranger, a halfling rogue, and a dwarven cleric, does that help some?

 

[Aaron2]

So, for those of you who've played a few more mages, is a 13th level sorcerer with 27 hps going to die quick or is it livable?

Probably not with just 27. However, with your starting cash you will be able to afford a +4 Amulet of Health (or whatever the Con bonus wondrous item is called). Plus, make sure you know False Life. This will give you 1d10+10 temp hit points for 13 hours. Its like a proactive Cure Moderate. You can cast it 7 times a day. Make sure its always up. **Always** Those two things will result in about 26+15=41 extra hit points.

Remember, a 13d6 attack will do about 45 points of damage. This should be considered your mimimum. With only 27 hit points, you might get hit by an enemy fireball at full health, make your save and still die.


Aaron

 

[Erratic K]

I vote for die quick. If your campaign has any kind of PC lethality .

Anything more deadly than Absolute on this scale:

http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/theory/models/interaction_model.html

You can be killed by average results from direct damage spells from a 7th or 8th level caster (say lightning bolt at 7 or 8d6- if you fail for some reason to counterspell or save- you are dead with an average roll, even with the save you are dead on a good roll). That is from a CR 8 creature that you are expected to deal with (as a mage).

CR 13 creatures (you will probably face a little higher since you have 5 players) like Gelugons, Death Slaad and Vrock from the monster manual may can use 20+ hp in one or two hits without criticals.

Even traps of CR 6 (Floor transforms to Acid p.116 DMG) will kill 27hp characters on average. At least you make make the reflex save to not take any though.

Basically if you have a story oriented campaign, do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't take a story oriented con penalty...it is just too hazardous to have 27 HP's at 13th level in a 3/3.5 E campaign that goes dungeon romping.

-E

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I agree. If you're dungeon crawling, you'll need all the hp you can get! But False Life is certainly your friend if you do decide to take this option.

 

[Victim]

Even 40 HP would be too few. You need to boost your Con with an amulet of health or something.. Expect most attacks to be over 20 points per hit - thus 27 HP means you could go down to one lucky hit.

 

[Storminator]

Even 40 HP would be too few. You need to boost your Con with an amulet of health or something.. Expect most attacks to be over 20 points per hit - thus 27 HP means you could go down to one lucky hit.

You can get the cleric to cast Shield Other as well, that'll double you hp, with False Life and Shield other, you can triple those 27 hp. But you still need to stay the heck away from the fighting.

PS

 

[Mercule]

Okay, if False Life is so important, then how do mages survive in campaigns that only use the core books?

I don't own Tome and Blood, so I'd rather not use spells from there if possible.

 

[arwink]

They play smart. I've seen low Hp wizards survive for a really, really long time by doing all the things wizards are meant to do - using misdirection, cover, and long range magic to keep themselves out of the line of fire.

I've seen wizards with attrociously maxed con scores (+5 or so per hit die) get taken down in a single round, because they didn't have the good sense to stay out of the line of fire or watch the front line for places where the enemy can get through.

it's doable, but you need to be careful and make sure the rest of the party knows what you're likely to do.

 

[Michael Tree]

Okay, if False Life is so important, then how do mages survive in campaigns that only use the core books?

I don't own Tome and Blood, so I'd rather not use spells from there if possible.

It's in the 3.5 PH and the 3.5 SRD.

In 3.0 wizards relied a lot on the Endurance spell, but its duration has been nerfed in 3.5. Others put decent scores into Con, or use items to enhance it.

The others are right that at high levels, wizards with low cons are extremely fragile. Without evasion, a single area effect spell can kill you, even if you make your save.

 

[Cedric]

In 3.0 the answer for a sorcerer was an empowered, extended Endurance...