Mages, HP, and survival
- Thread starter Mercule
- Start date
tarchon
First Post
I once played an AD&D character (wizard/cleric) of about that level with something like 31 hp. He did end up dying, twice over several years of play, but it was while he had NPCitis both times, and one of those was a Save or Die. It is survivable, though you have to play with greater than ordinary care, and lots of healing and protection spells.
Mista Collins
First Post
I once played a kobold sorc who had a -3 Con modifier. He was 20th level with 20 hp. The key word in that sentence is was. He didn't last long at all. HP are a big must for everyone. Con is usually the second or third stat i worry about. Pump it up as much as possible.
Graf
Explorer
Having low hit points is a fun, but tough thing to play. I've played my share of low con characters (most recenlty an elf psion) all i can say is
1. never ever let yourself get boxed in, trapped or caught. In fact, never get into melee range at all. Falling prone at the end of an action behind something (often total cover) is always a good choice.
2. Use all your spells, feats, powers and items to maximize your chances of survival.
3. Assume something really bad is going to happen to you as soon as you open the door and cast that defensive spell now.*
4. scout scout scout scout scout -- Not only does this mean that the wizard isn't going near the monsters first but it lets you know what you need to be hiding from
I found myself spending roughly half of my powers and feats on things that directly or indirectly improved my hit points, lowered the damage I was taking, gave me a miss chance to be hit, raised AC, etc.
I got hit about once or twice a level. When I did it was either 1. no big deal or 2. I'm just about dead.
*Now that a lot of powers are only 1 min/level durations it's extremely difficult to go into combat fully protected. And combats are often short so you can't really spend three rounds casting protective spells. It's a pickle and you'll just have to make constant judgement calls.
1. never ever let yourself get boxed in, trapped or caught. In fact, never get into melee range at all. Falling prone at the end of an action behind something (often total cover) is always a good choice.
2. Use all your spells, feats, powers and items to maximize your chances of survival.
3. Assume something really bad is going to happen to you as soon as you open the door and cast that defensive spell now.*
4. scout scout scout scout scout -- Not only does this mean that the wizard isn't going near the monsters first but it lets you know what you need to be hiding from
I found myself spending roughly half of my powers and feats on things that directly or indirectly improved my hit points, lowered the damage I was taking, gave me a miss chance to be hit, raised AC, etc.
I got hit about once or twice a level. When I did it was either 1. no big deal or 2. I'm just about dead.
*Now that a lot of powers are only 1 min/level durations it's extremely difficult to go into combat fully protected. And combats are often short so you can't really spend three rounds casting protective spells. It's a pickle and you'll just have to make constant judgement calls.
Norfleet
First Post
Heh. Absolute. Absolute is for wimps. According to that page, the game I ran was way, way out there: Explicit/Reversed/Black.Erratic K said:
And the streets shall flow with the blood of the nonbelievers.
Anyway, the idea that mages are better done as frail weaklings of low Con and Strength is a thing of editions past. With d4 HD, Con that accumulates throughout all 20 levels, and Concentration, one of the core skills, especially for a sorceror, DEPENDING on Con, I prioritize Con higher on mages than I do even on fighters. Fighters, with d10 HD, and a strong base fort save, can hack it on +0/+1 Con mod. Mages, with piddly d4 HP, shouldn't go less than +2. More is better. I prioritize stats on sorcs generally in the following order: Cha, Con, Dex, Wis, Int, Str. For wizards, naturally, Int is first, Cha is last. Interestingly enough, with this priority setting, elf makes a slightly subpar wizard, given that wizard is its favored class.
Eternalknight
First Post
arwink said:
This is exactly right. I have seen a 15th level sorcerer with around 55-60hp... he survived everything the party came across when the fighter and the paladin went down.
Numion
First Post
Mercule said:
Die quick.
Even if you had your protective spells on, you'll die of Destruction, Flame Strike or Disintegrate. Those spells are hard to protect against, since Flame Strike causes also divine damage and destruction causes 10d6 even on a succesful save. Disintegrate also deals damage in any case.
Being the primary target of any intelligent enemies doesn't help, either.
When I started 3E I ported over a mage from 2E with 16hp at level 12.
BOY did he die alot
SERIOUSLY ALOT
I played him to the best of my limited ability, but the simple fact was this, anything even VAGUELY unexpected Spllotted him, even a stray fireball.
In the end the DM let me port my Quasit familiar back from another dimension, which trippled my hp and with endurace and the rest I just about got by.
3E does NOT cater for the frail old mage in the way earilier edition might have done. If you want an RP angle just remeber that hp is not just about being whacked, a level 15 fighter is no better at taking an axe to the face than a level 1 fighter. HP also represent you balance and alertness, you enurance and ability to duck and dodge, its when you get to very low hp that you are tired or off balance and blows start conecting.
Simply having alow for save will make you fairly frail, play in your hp boost s being very quick and nimble, you might be old and frail, but you are wise and experienced, you have a small amount of fighting experience that allows you to dodge a few blows.
BOY did he die alot
SERIOUSLY ALOT
I played him to the best of my limited ability, but the simple fact was this, anything even VAGUELY unexpected Spllotted him, even a stray fireball.
In the end the DM let me port my Quasit familiar back from another dimension, which trippled my hp and with endurace and the rest I just about got by.
3E does NOT cater for the frail old mage in the way earilier edition might have done. If you want an RP angle just remeber that hp is not just about being whacked, a level 15 fighter is no better at taking an axe to the face than a level 1 fighter. HP also represent you balance and alertness, you enurance and ability to duck and dodge, its when you get to very low hp that you are tired or off balance and blows start conecting.
Simply having alow for save will make you fairly frail, play in your hp boost s being very quick and nimble, you might be old and frail, but you are wise and experienced, you have a small amount of fighting experience that allows you to dodge a few blows.
Holy Bovine
First Post
I don't think the original poster was saying that the frail mage is a 'better' way to go but ratyher this is his character concept. It is just as vaild as your higher Con Sorcerer or my high Str Sorcerer (give him a reach weapon and he's always useful!Norfleet said:
).I like the idea that someone would still take a character like this. it means he'll have to play a little more carefully and make sure he has adequate protection magics up at all times but if this frail sorcerer has survived to 13th level that should be in his nature.
Anyway take False Life, Shield and anything that will boost your saves, stay out of melee (or even line of sight of enemy spellcasters!) and you should do just fine.
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