Mages, HP, and survival

[Darklone]

We had a similar dex 20, con 10 wizard in our party... more than once he nearly killed the cleric due to shield other.

He had some rules:
3.0:
- Don't leave the house without Endurance and Shield other and all kinds of elemental resistances.
3.5:
- False Life plus everything above... instead of Endurance: Amulet of Health.
- Spell resistance/immunity is a nice spell. Never forget Death ward.

The group was always protecting him at all costs... so he survived till now.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I wonder - are you playing the old infirm mage in order to get bonuses on your mental stats from age? (ie. using the physical penalties and mental bonuses for age?). If so, I would suggest that it is a poor tradeoff, especially for RttToEE.

The 27hp sorcerer will die often. Along with Norfleet I believe that CON is the second most important attribute for arcane casters.

Regards,

 

[Mercule]

I wonder - are you playing the old infirm mage in order to get bonuses on your mental stats from age? (ie. using the physical penalties and mental bonuses for age?). If so, I would suggest that it is a poor tradeoff, especially for RttToEE.

Actually, it's for the backstory to get the half-ogre in. The DM was wary enough about that that he wanted to know why we'd hooked up with one. The first thing that came to mind was that she was my neice (meaning that my unfortunate sister died in childbirth). That earned me an instant "Okay, you're at least 35." So, I'm not _old_, just not in the prime.

We're using a 28 point buy, and my only real requirement is to be able to afford an 18 Cha (w/o age, etc. modifiers). Oh, and the back story requires that I'm human. I'm building a war-mage, straight-up. Lots of destruction spells. I don't really care if it's a Sorcerer or Wizard, but Sorcerer sounded a bit easier to make/play.

I rarely min-max much about my characters, but after beating our heads up against RtToEE for over a year and still dealing with the Earth temple because we were so RP oriented, I'm seizing the opportunity the DM offered to bring in some butt-kickers to finish things up.

The idea of a war-mage is so alien to what I normally play (I'm a Rogue kinda guy), that any advice would be appreciated. We are playing 3.0 because that's what the Temple is written for and what everyone knows. I don't own Song and Silence, but the DM does, so material from that is legal, but I don't have immediate access to it.

 

[Silverglass]

Well with a 28 point buy +3 stat increases for 13th level (and standard treasure values?) I'd go for:

CHA 16+2 = 18
CON 14+1 = 15
DEX 14
INT 10
WIS 10
STR 10

Buy a +2 CON item for 13d4+39 for 73 Hit Points.

As you are using 3.0 then extended/maximised Endurance (with a CON of 20 thats 99HP) and Cat's Grace, is a good call.

For your money buy lots of items that give small bonuses rather than one big item as you want to cover many bases rather than one and the price differential between a +6 CHA item and a +4 CHA item buys you a +2 and a +4 stat item.

Long duration element protections are good as well.

Remember that if you can extend durations beyond 8 hours then they last until after you prepare spells again and don't affect the number of spells you can cast that day. So you could start the day with full spell capability and 16 hours
of extended stat buffs on party members.

 

[Mercule]

For your money buy lots of items that give small bonuses rather than one big item as you want to cover many bases rather than one and the price differential between a +6 CHA item and a +4 CHA item buys you a +2 and a +4 stat item.

Hmm... I understand the logic here, but with the stats you'd posted (base 16 cha) and only a +4 Cha item, vs. an 18 base Cha and a +6 item, the difference is 4 points of Cha. Isn't that a pretty significant hit?

Here's what I'd planned:
Stat (Age) <level> = total
Str 9 (-1) = 8
Dex 11 (-1) = 10
Con 11 (-1) = 10
Int 10 (+1) = 11
Wis 11 (+1) = 12
Cha 18 (+1) <+3> = 22

Add in a Cloak +6 for a Cha 28. Top of with Spell Focus (Evocation) for some nasty save DCs.

How much _real_ power am I losing by trading off the Cha for the Con?

 

[Holy Bovine]

Hmm... I understand the logic here, but with the stats you'd posted (base 16 cha) and only a +4 Cha item, vs. an 18 base Cha and a +6 item, the difference is 4 points of Cha. Isn't that a pretty significant hit?

Here's what I'd planned:
Stat (Age) = total
Str 9 (-1) = 8
Dex 11 (-1) = 10
Con 11 (-1) = 10
Int 10 (+1) = 11
Wis 11 (+1) = 12
Cha 18 (+1) <+3> = 22

Add in a Cloak +6 for a Cha 28. Top of with Spell Focus (Evocation) for some nasty save DCs.

How much _real_ power am I losing by trading off the Cha for the Con?

Dump the 18 start in CHA to 16 and that frees up 6 more points for other stats. With 28 point buy an 18 is not really worth it (and with the +6 Cha item you still have a 26 Cha - still excellent save DCs). Maybe go with the following

Str 9 (-1) = 8
Dex 13 (-1)= 12
Con 11 (-1)= 10
Int 14 (+1) = 15
Wis 11 (+1) = 12
Cha 16 (+1) = 17 <+3 > = 20

This is assuming you want to go with the 'scholarly' type mage. i still like giving bonuses to Dex as Reflex saves are so important and with the Int bonus you will have lots of maxed out skills (for a sorcerer).

Remember this is all IMO and YMMV

 

[WizarDru]

How much _real_ power am I losing by trading off the Cha for the Con?

It's all relative. For the most part, it's a tradeoff. The lowered DCs and fewer spells are quite a loss in effectivenss...but deadmen cast no spells, as it were.

However, when you reach the levels you're at, you're pretty much in a corner, regardless. I wouldn't fret the hit points so much, and concentrate on NOT GETTING HIT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Most high-level arcanists survive (as mentioned before) by smart tactics and letting their friends take the brunt of the pain. Polymorph into a more defensive form. Keep a Shield running. Blink. A lot. Get Bracers of Defense. If 3.0, have a haste ready. Run Improved Invisibility. The wizard in my game prefers to be a grig, small and flying.

At the levels you're entering into, high powered death spells are starting to take hold, and nasty beasties are roaming the lands. Let the meat-shields take the pain...you need to stay clear, whenever possible. Remember that you're weak enough, in perfect health, to be killed in one turn by a CR 6 girallon. Imagine what a Gray Render will do to you, or a classed Ogre or an evil Trog Cleric of high-levels.

You're an artillery gun, not a tank. An armor-plated artillery gun is still an artillery gun. The strongest cream puff on the planet is still going to get his butt kicked by a Fire Giant in melee.

Don't worry, those fighters will appreciate it when you disintegrate that beholder, later on.

 

[smetzger]

Hmm... I understand the logic here, but with the stats you'd posted (base 16 cha) and only a +4 Cha item, vs. an 18 base Cha and a +6 item, the difference is 4 points of Cha. Isn't that a pretty significant hit?

Here's what I'd planned:
Stat (Age) <level> = total
Str 9 (-1) = 8
Dex 11 (-1) = 10
Con 11 (-1) = 10
Int 10 (+1) = 11
Wis 11 (+1) = 12
Cha 18 (+1) <+3> = 22

Add in a Cloak +6 for a Cha 28. Top of with Spell Focus (Evocation) for some nasty save DCs.

How much _real_ power am I losing by trading off the Cha for the Con?

I played a 15th level Kobold Sorcerer (yes his name was Meepo) through a one off Lord of the Iron Fortress. Despite a 14 total Con I died several times from failed saves.

If your playing 3.0 get a Toad Familiar. Definantly get a +2 Con boosting item and some stuff to boost your saves.

Also consider buying a scroll of permanancy (this way you don't have to use a known spell slot) and check out the list of spells you could make permanent on yourself.

Feats: Improved Initiative and Leadership are shoe ins.

 

[Mercule]

Also consider buying a scroll of permanancy (this way you don't have to use a known spell slot) and check out the list of spells you could make permanent on yourself.

Feats: Improved Initiative and Leadership are shoe ins.

Oh! I really like the permanency thing.

Imp Init I understand, but why Leadership?

 

[Mercule]

bumping for dollars