Mages vs Clerics

[mvincent]

If the wizard isn't going to run out of spells, then the cleric certainly isn't. All other things being equal, he had more...

With things like contingency, school specialization and the ability to focus on one stat (Int), I couldn't call that a truism. And with thing like Mnemonic Enhancer potentially allowing for dozens of extra spells, I always play wizards when I want lots of spells.

Nonetheless, I was refering to the fact that a wizard (and most clerics even) would not let a fight last that long (he'd either teleport away or use a different fight-end spell combo).

 

[Funkthis]

Time Stop is a 9th level celerity domain spell.

Not that I'm taking sides but using the fact that cleric domains allow access to some of the better spells of a mage is a little overblown as clerics have a finite number of domains. So everyone responding to x mage spell by saying y domain grants it is a little bit of a reach.

In terms of how powerful each is in comparison, which to me is not a question of who will outduel the other, they all have their areas to shine. I guess I would have to say a druid is the most powerful over the life of a character.

 

[Nail]

Nonetheless, I was refering to the fact that a wizard (and most clerics even) would not let a fight last that long...

Word.

2 to 3 rounds, maximum. One-shot techniques are rampant at very high level, for both clerics and wizards.

 

[seans23]

Not that I'm taking sides but using the fact that cleric domains allow access to some of the better spells of a mage is a little overblown as clerics have a finite number of domains. So everyone responding to x mage spell by saying y domain grants it is a little bit of a reach.

For a mere 3000gp(formerly 8000gp) you can drink a domain draught and have access to whatever domain you please.

 

[IcyCool]

For a mere 3000gp(formerly 8000gp) you can drink a domain draught and have access to whatever domain you please.

Where did you get that item from?

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Duels do not work for this. You need a set of challenges.

1) CR Appropriate Dragon: Assuming non surprise, who does better on their own with time to prep (no wish or miracle)?
2) Room of 1000 Orcs: Same as above
3) Maze of 100 Traps: Who can get through a maze of random obstacles easiest?
4) Item Chef: Who can create best set of magic gear
5) Escape from Alcatraz: Escape from capture / prison
6) Milk absorbency
7) Around the world in 80 days (who can get from points A -> Z the fastest and in order)
8) Dungeon Decorator (Who can fortify / protect a dungeon most effectively)
9) Cult of Personality: Who can magically compel the loyalty of a city first?

Best of 9 should win.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[seans23]

Where did you get that item from?

It's in the new Magic Item Compendium.
It was previously in the DMG II, but priced differently, and had a stipulation about atonement if you chose spells opposed to your alignment.

 

[Funkthis]

It's in the new Magic Item Compendium.
It was previously in the DMG II, but priced differently, and had a stipulation about atonement if you chose spells opposed to your alignment.

We all know that every non-core book has classes, PrCs, feats, spells, magic items, etc. which are not well thought out. As a DM this would be an item I would not allow along with a long list of other feats, spells and items (of which several I'm sure make wizards that much more powerful).

Not to hijack a thread but items like this are one of the reason I dislike the fact that WOTC puts out a new book every month.

 

[Razilin]

mages can prepare nerveskitter. it may be enough to win initiative. barring the whole initiaitve-as-be-all-end-all, I'm putting more money on the cleric. if the fight goes for any longer than 3 rounds, it becomes a slugfest--and the cleric has the melee power to pull it off.

however, a properly combat-oriented mage will have swift and immediate spells prepared in about a 2:1 ratio to standard action attack spells. thank god for Player's Handbook II, which has a whole bunch of them. I'm rather fond of energy aegis myself. the one who could pull off a swift/immediate spell duel would be the sorc; a wizard doesn't have the flexibility in a furious fight that a spontaneous caster does.

 

[Nail]

mages can prepare nerveskitter.

As can a Clr 20.

[music]"Anything you can do, I can do better...."[/music]

however, a properly combat-oriented mage will have swift and immediate spells prepared....

Divine Metamagic (Quicken)

[music]
Anything you can do,
I can do better.
I can do anything
Better than you.

No, you can't.
Yes, I can. No, you can't.
Yes, I can. No, you can't.
Yes, I can,
Yes, I can!

Anything you can be
I can be greater.
Sooner or later,
I'm greater than you.

No, you're not. Yes, I am.
No, you're not. Yes, I am.
No, you're NOT!. Yes, I am.
Yes, I am!
[/music]