+Magic Armor Rules -Help?

[Sorrowdusk]

My new GM is insiting that the Enhancement bonus for Armor AND Special abilities are BOTH capped at +5. So they are saying you could have +5 to AC and a +5 Property, BUT NOT +1 to AC and +9 in Properties. Likewise with weapons.

Everything I can find including the SRD ONLY explicitly states that Enhancement Bonuses (which stack with regular armor bonuses) are capped at +5 and the modified enhancement bonus is capped at +10.They are pretty adamant about this despite the evidence.

Are they correct?
Can anyone give me an example of a published or official source that gives examples of armor and weapons that have MORE than +5 in Amor Properties but LESS than +11 total (in other words, non-epic)? It doesnt matter if they are examples of armors, or NPC gear as long as its non epic and official. The more sources the better, if you can offer them.

 

[Dandu]

No, they are not correct.

Show them what you want, but they'll explain it away as WotC making a mistake.

It is one of the great tragedies of life that you cannot make people see reality for what it is.

 

[Scott DeWar]

I have to agree with Dandu. No matter how correct you may be, the Dm usually has his/her mind made up and it is a waste of breath to try and argue. I Would take the diplomatic/gentlemanly way and take their words at face value and try and enjoy the game otherwise.

 

[Jimlock]

Ed: Do you own a video camera?
Renee: No. Fred hates them.
Fred: I like to remember things my own way.
Ed: What do you mean by that?
Fred: How I remembered them. Not necessarily the way they happened.

(Lost Highway)

 

[Jimlock]

examples of armor and weapons that have MORE than +5 in Amor Properties but LESS than +11 total

.....on a more "constructive" note...

i don't remember to have ever seen such an example. Even though i agree with all of you...properties/abilities have always been used as "the cherry on top" so to speak...meaning that we've mostly seen items that range from +1 to +5 (enhancement bonus) plus "THIS" property/ability...

There certainly is no rule to say that they are both capped at +5...which means you are right. Yet i'm sure that your DM was led to this assumption because of the mainstream use of enhancement and property/ability bonuses...

perhaps such a rule was "intended" by the game designers..but i guess we'll never know.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

Well what about with weapons rather than armor? Weapons would be just as could as an example. I mean how often do you add that big +X to hit/dmg rather than the other stuff you can put on a weap?

The only reason people even used to have big bonuses on weaps To-Hit was for the old DR/+x weapon. There's got to be examples of weapons if not armors right?

 

[Jimlock]

keep your hopes up... chances are that someone will find something

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

The problem with looking for an official example of an item within those parameters is simply that the WotC developers actually think buying an enhancement bonus above +1 is actually worth it, and so any NPC statted up in a book somewhere is going to be much more likely to have a +5 flaming burst longsword (for instance) than a +1 flaming burst, shocking burst, etc. longsword.

One option is to point out that, when using the random generation tables, it is possible to generate a weapon within those parameters. Rolling a "roll again twice" result and then rolling speed and brilliant energy gets you a weapon with +7 worth of special abilities. The subscript note in the table only mentions the +10 limit, and there are no mentions anywhere of a +5 limit for abilities, so that should help persuade your DM.

 

[Greenfield]

Okay, so I have the aforementioned +1 Longsword of Speed and Brilliant Energy. Total is +8.

I cast Greater Magic Weapon on it, bumping its attack bonus to +4 or +5.

I'm now holding a weapon which is effectively a +11 or +12 total.

Is that legal?

 

[kitcik]

How about this logic:

1. Per the DMG, the value of a +8 sword is 128,000 GP.

2. A non-epic +2 sword with +6 worth of special abilities (i.e. +8 total value) would prove your point.

3. Per the DMG, a Luck Blade is a +2 short sword with certain special abilities (+1 saves, 1 reroll per day, wishes).

4. Per the DMG, a Luck Blade with 3 wishes has a price of 142,960 GP.

5. 142,960 > 128,000

6. This is an example of a magic weapon with +2 enhancement and > +5 worth of special abilities and therefore proves your point.

7. ??? (Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery?)

8. Profit.